Metiria Turei's confessed benefit fraud

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#1834786 1-Aug-2017 10:47

MikeB4:

If MSD assesses there is no overpayment and as such no debt to the Crown then the only thing she did wrong was failing to declare. While technically a breach of the SSA from my experience I doubt MSD would take legal action solely for that. If they assess there is an overpayment and a debt is due the crown then there are options open to them, They could write the debt off but I doubt her current financial circumstances would meet the criteria for that. Seek to only recover the debt. Increase the debt as a means of punishment, this can be three times the assessed debt. Take a case to the Crown solicitor to look at possible prosecution.

In the context of recent prosecutions for historic benefit fraud, it would IMO give the appearance of "special treatment" if the MSD decided not to prosecute. (If their investigation findings align with Turei's own admissions)

In her own words (or those of her husband) Metiria has admitted:

- Refusing to name the father (despite the father being known)

- Accepting support from the father (presumably undeclared)

- Accepting support from the paternal grandmother (presumably undeclared)

- Accepting support from the maternal grandparents (presumably undeclared)

- Accepting income from flatmates (presumably undeclared)

- Accepting the DBP while in a relationship (presumably undeclared)

...all in a pre-meditated, deliberate and sustained fashion over many years.

Now it may eventuate that these are unsubstantiated fabrications made up to sell women's magazines and score political points, but they have created a widespread impression that a significant white-collar crime has been confessed to, and hence any decision to NOT prosecute would need to be accompanied by a level of justification. If they issue a "nothing to see here - move along" decision, public perception will be that it was a cover-up.

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#1834798 1-Aug-2017 11:01

@6FIEND MSD cannot and will not release details

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

6FIEND

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#1834825 1-Aug-2017 11:22

MikeB4:

@6FIEND MSD cannot and will not release details

And that is a good thing.

...but you can see how this incident places them in a rather "tricky" situation. I can only really see two possible outcomes:

1) they refer the matter to the crown for prosecution on the prima facie evidence of "obtaining by deception"

2) they bury it and wear the criticism of engaging in a cover-up.

...but it seems now that we're moving on to the next disaster of the Labour/Greens MOU partnership. Perhaps this issue will be buried in the media frenzy around Little's capitulation today, just as Labour's hypocrisy in shipping in unpaid immigrant students for campaign purposes was buried last week when Metiria's story broke.

MikeB4

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#1834829 1-Aug-2017 11:27

6FIEND:

MikeB4:

@6FIEND MSD cannot and will not release details

And that is a good thing.

...but you can see how this incident places them in a rather "tricky" situation. I can only really see two possible outcomes:

1) they refer the matter to the crown for prosecution on the prima facie evidence of "obtaining by deception"

2) they bury it and wear the criticism of engaging in a cover-up.

...but it seems now that we're moving on to the next disaster of the Labour/Greens MOU partnership. Perhaps this issue will be buried in the media frenzy around Little's capitulation today, just as Labour's hypocrisy in shipping in unpaid immigrant students for campaign purposes was buried last week when Metiria's story broke.

If you look back at my posts I stated my view as being that this election Ms Turei should stand down for this election, get her affairs in order and if the NZ Greens still want her she stands in the 2020 election for an electorate seat and let the voters have their say as well. She should not be standing as a list MP until all this mess has been resolved.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Dratsab

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#1834881 1-Aug-2017 12:45

Pumpedd: This was over 20 years ago when $50k was a massive amount of money.

Just had a quick skim back over this thread. I've seen a few figures bandied about but am wondering where this particular one came from? There's a lot of variables that haven't been publicly quantified, and may never be.

Rikkitic

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#1834890 1-Aug-2017 13:04

Dratsab:

Pumpedd: This was over 20 years ago when $50k was a massive amount of money.

Just had a quick skim back over this thread. I've seen a few figures bandied about but am wondering where this particular one came from? There's a lot of variables that haven't been publicly quantified, and may never be.

That was the point of one of my posts, but it is easy to drown in the details so I have tried to keep things simple. According to one calculation, the $50,000+ figure is a ridiculous fantasy and she could not have come anywhere near that. This is based on a maximum possible supplement of $50/week at that time. Over three years that leads to a theoretical maximum of about $7800, still a sizeable amount but a long way from $50k.

It is because of things like this that I try to maintain a healthy scepticism before going overboard with criticism. I can give some source links later but right now I am on a different computer.

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Rikkitic

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#1834973 1-Aug-2017 14:14

I just tried to edit the previous post but mysterious things are happening and I don't know where the edits have gone. I will try putting them into a new reply here.

Edit: I am back at the other computer. Here are the links. First, I stumbled across a surprisingly informative, comprehensive and balanced article in the Herald that covers just about every point and every point of view. Here is an excerpt regarding the $50k figure:

Legal expert Graeme Edgeler said that the maximum possible accommodation supplement in 1993 was $50 per week. This would amount to far less over three years than the figure calculated by The Taxpayers' Union.
The maximum possible accommodation supplement in 1993 was $50pw. https://t.co/lcFwnFqqjE
— Graeme Edgeler (@GraemeEdgeler) July 17, 2017

And this:

Auckland Action Against Poverty advocate Alistair Russell told Newshub the Taxpayers' Union is embarking on a "witch hunt" and its figure is absurd.
"The figure is simply ridiculous, yet another attempt by a right wing organisation to beat up on beneficiaries past and present."
He said Ms Turei would have received the Domestic Purposes Benefit regardless of whether she had flatmates, and under the accommodation supplement rules she had the right to have up to two boarders. Mr Russell said the rent paid by the boarders would not have been considered income by WINZ.

People believe what they want to. That doesn't mean either version is correct.

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#1836610 3-Aug-2017 14:58

WOW just WOW.

"It would be difficult for Martin Matthews to continue in his role, Greens co-leader James Shaw said."

At least A G Matthews does the right thing and resigns.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95411616/auditorgeneral-resigns-saying-his-position-is-untenable

Rikkitic

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#1836684 3-Aug-2017 16:03

I have a feeling he didn't have much choice. We still don't know what is in that report.

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#1836834 3-Aug-2017 20:26

Rikkitic:

I have a feeling he didn't have much choice. We still don't know what is in that report.

And we shall never know either. Unless it gets leaked.

Pumpedd

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#1836852 3-Aug-2017 21:24

and now she has admitted to electoral fraud..

Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei has admitted registering a false address in order to vote, but has denied reports she lived there with the father of her child while collecting the domestic purposes benefit.

That is also a chargeable offence....she would be far better to keep her mouth shut, clearly she isnt very clever.

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MikeB4

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#1836861 3-Aug-2017 21:34

Pumpedd:

and now she has admitted to electoral fraud..

Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei has admitted registering a false address in order to vote, but has denied reports she lived there with the father of her child while collecting the domestic purposes benefit.

That is also a chargeable offence....she would be far better to keep her mouth shut, clearly she isnt very clever.

with that she needs to step down now. if she cares about the Green Party she would resign first thing tomorrow.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

DaveB

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#1836864 3-Aug-2017 21:39

Tueri confirms that her mum was her flatmate when she claimed the benefit??

In the immortal Monty Python words ..... Say no more!

Wiggum

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#1836872 3-Aug-2017 21:57

DaveB:

Tueri confirms that her mum was her flatmate when she claimed the benefit??

In the immortal Monty Python words ..... Say no more!

The woman needs to be locked up.

Rikkitic

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#1836877 3-Aug-2017 22:14

Usually when things like this start to dribble out, there is more to come. I think people were too quick to jump on her initially because of politics and I think she deserved the benefit of the doubt, but I am not inclined to defend her any longer. I do think she needs to step down. This is doing her party no good.

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