Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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Awrrr
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#1919043 13-Dec-2017 14:00

If a schoolyard bully is pushing you around, the natural response is to want to avoid aggravating him further, but the bully may just take that as encouragement to ramp up the abuse. Sometimes the best response may be just to bop him on the nose.

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MikeB4

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#1919048 13-Dec-2017 14:13

Rikkitic:
If a schoolyard bully is pushing you around, the natural response is to want to avoid aggravating him further, but the bully may just take that as encouragement to ramp up the abuse. Sometimes the best response may be just to bop him on the nose.

I agree to a point but we have to be careful not to push back so much they tell us to bugger off. They are a big importer of our goods and a very important defence partner.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MikeAqua

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#1919056 13-Dec-2017 14:29

I don't think JA's offer to take a small number of Manus refugees was a good faith offer intended to help.

I think it was an offer intended to embarrass Turnbull or at least put him in a difficult position. It looked more like activism than governance.

Mike

networkn

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#1919059 13-Dec-2017 14:33

Rikkitic:

If a schoolyard bully is pushing you around, the natural response is to want to avoid aggravating him further, but the bully may just take that as encouragement to ramp up the abuse. Sometimes the best response may be just to bop him on the nose.

As someone who was bullied as a kid, I can tell you that either result can end well or end badly, it depends on the person. The reality is, this isn't schoolyard bullying, this is completely different. It's international politics. We have nothing to "bop" Australia on the nose with, and whilst it's all well and good to sit behind a keyboard and rah rah JA to "stand up" to Australia, the reality is, Australia don't give a toss, and if the decide to retaliate in any way, we will lose more than we ever would have gained. Might be easy to be flippant about that, but it's possible the effects will be felt well after JA is back in opposition and your children, grandchildren are worse off.

To JA I say, pick your battles. Manus is a human rights issue, but we can be effective in other areas (IE increasing refugee quotas) and help just as many people, and take Australia on for something we a) have a chance to succeed with, and b) has benefits we can't get any other way.

JA can't see this, it's another failing of her leadership in my opinion. It's why I advocated more time for her as opposition leader to learn rather than learning on the job where her mistakes could affect thousands for generations.

I don't actually want JA to fail despite what people might feel. I also don't expect to pay $450K a year for someone to learn on the job.

networkn

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#1919060 13-Dec-2017 14:33

MikeAqua:

I don't think JA's offer to take a small number of Manus refugees was a good faith offer intended to help.

I think it was an offer intended to embarrass Turnbull or at least put him in a difficult position. It looked more like activism than governance.

I am glad someone else can see that it wasn't really a genuine offer. I feel it was done to make her "popular".

Rikkitic

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#1919077 13-Dec-2017 14:43

Where is the educational facility in this country that grants degrees in being an MP/Minister/PM? They all learn on the job. That is the way the system works. As an aside, I happen to think they are all grossly overpaid, but that is another matter.

For the rest, I don't disagree much. Yes, she should pick her battles. Yes, we don't amount to more than a grease stain on Australia's boots. I do think a degree of prudent caution needs to be exercised, but I also think it is important to 'stand up' (in some way) for your principles.

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MikeAqua

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#1919084 13-Dec-2017 14:59

networkn:

Rikkitic:

If a schoolyard bully is pushing you around, the natural response is to want to avoid aggravating him further, but the bully may just take that as encouragement to ramp up the abuse. Sometimes the best response may be just to bop him on the nose.

As someone who was bullied as a kid, I can tell you that either result can end well or end badly, it depends on the person.

As a kid the most trouble I ever got in was kicking the school bully's butt. It seemed unfair at the time. Guy was a well known thug. He was after me with a pool cue and was much bigger than me as I was in 4th form and he was in his 3rd attempt at 5th form. In reality all I did was trip him but the results were a re-constructive orthodontists dream.

Mike

networkn

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#1919100 13-Dec-2017 15:03

Rikkitic:

Where is the educational facility in this country that grants degrees in being an MP/Minister/PM? They all learn on the job. That is the way the system works. As an aside, I happen to think they are all grossly overpaid, but that is another matter.

For the rest, I don't disagree much. Yes, she should pick her battles. Yes, we don't amount to more than a grease stain on Australia's boots. I do think a degree of prudent caution needs to be exercised, but I also think it is important to 'stand up' (in some way) for your principles.

Right, except that I don't believe that Manus presents a serious problem for her principles. She "wants" to help overseas refugees yet spent so much time bashing National for all the problems "they created" at home. She has made 1000 promises to help at home, THAT should be her battles right now.

Manus has a solution, it's just not one she 'likes".

I agree on overpaid.

Re education to become a politician, well University has degrees that would help, but ultimately the appropriate way is to work your way up the system, and her rise was so quick, I don't think she has gotten that to any proper degree. Labour right now should be more cohesive than they are, there are plenty of overseas commentators making fun of them all the time. Labour had 9 years to put together a super team with clear policies. They should have been better prepared on tax, the child poverty plan should have been clearly outlined during the election.

I suspect it's going to be at least a year before they have a semblance of cohesiveness. I for one resent them having unseated a stable experienced Government who was prepared this term to work on some areas that had been lacking due to trying to restore a surplus and having 4 Natural disasters and the world second largest financial meltdown, so we can have Labour come in and waste a year we don't have, trying to find their feet.

My memory of National coming into Government from opposition was it was largely seamless. Everyone will tolerate a few small misteps, these are humans after all, but this is worse than I expected, and I didn't have high expectations to start with.

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#1919101 13-Dec-2017 15:05

Rikkitic:

Where is the educational facility in this country that grants degrees in being an MP/Minister/PM? They all learn on the job. That is the way the system works. As an aside, I happen to think they are all grossly overpaid, but that is another matter.

For the rest, I don't disagree much. Yes, she should pick her battles. Yes, we don't amount to more than a grease stain on Australia's boots. I do think a degree of prudent caution needs to be exercised, but I also think it is important to 'stand up' (in some way) for your principles.

You really are being a bit naive again.

Pumpedd

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#1919102 13-Dec-2017 15:05

Rikkitic:

Where is the educational facility in this country that grants degrees in being an MP/Minister/PM? They all learn on the job. That is the way the system works. As an aside, I happen to think they are all grossly overpaid, but that is another matter.

For the rest, I don't disagree much. Yes, she should pick her battles. Yes, we don't amount to more than a grease stain on Australia's boots. I do think a degree of prudent caution needs to be exercised, but I also think it is important to 'stand up' (in some way) for your principles.

You really are being a bit naive again.

Pumpedd

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#1919103 13-Dec-2017 15:05

oops double post again

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networkn

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#1919104 13-Dec-2017 15:07

MikeAqua:

networkn:

Rikkitic:

If a schoolyard bully is pushing you around, the natural response is to want to avoid aggravating him further, but the bully may just take that as encouragement to ramp up the abuse. Sometimes the best response may be just to bop him on the nose.

As someone who was bullied as a kid, I can tell you that either result can end well or end badly, it depends on the person.

As a kid the most trouble I ever got in was kicking the school bully's butt. It seemed unfair at the time. Guy was a well known thug. He was after me with a pool cue and was much bigger than me as I was in 4th form and he was in his 3rd attempt at 5th form. In reality all I did was trip him but the results were a re-constructive orthodontists dream.

I didn't really fight as a kid, but one time I finally had enough of a bully in HS and dealt with him. I was expecting big trouble, but his parents implored with the principal on my behalf and said their Son deserved it.

Meant I actually went through my entire high school career without a single detention or black mark on my record.

Violence was actually frowned upon in my time, but generally, it was looked at pretty pragmatically.

I am pleased to say, at least in my kids school, bullying doesn't appear to be a problem. It would be hard to get away as a bully in a fair number of schools now, as it's drummed in everywhere that bullying isn't acceptable. Kids are much braver about coming forward and even if they don't, others will on their behalf.