UK prime minister Boris Johnson

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#2286369 31-Jul-2019 12:15

elpenguino:

No marriage lasts forever. Brexit is the kick in the pants Scottish independents and Irish republicans have been waiting for.

Since only England voted for brexit it's quite conceivable that we'll eventually end up with united Ireland and Scotland both joining the EU with England and Wales left on their lonesome.

One major hurdle for that is that in order to join the EU, a new member will need unanimous support from all current member states. I think Spain has already stated they are opposed to any breakaway state joining the EU. They essentially want to prevent a possible independent Catalonia from being able to leave Spain and join the EU. I think a couple of other member states are in a similar position.

SJB

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#2286395 31-Jul-2019 12:54

Fred99:

Ummmm... what the ....?

Of course the UK Labour Party and the UK Conservative Party would be "wiped out" if Scotland was to leave the UK.

Suggesting that this would result in an unopposed "one party state" is however - delusional.

Who could realistically oppose anything the SNP wanted to do then?

Rikkitic

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#2286435 31-Jul-2019 13:07

What keeps the SNP together is Scottish opposition to the other parties. Once they are gone, the Scots will oppose each other and the merry dance will start again.

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Fred99

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#2287219 1-Aug-2019 15:21

Boris on Brexit, Boris on Trump.

SJB

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#2287485 2-Aug-2019 09:43

Fred99:

Scotland is governed by a new UK Prime Minister, elected by 160,000 Tory members, of which only 9,000 are based in Scotland, from a party that hasn’t won a major election in Scotland in 64 years, to deliver a Brexit that 62% of Scotland’s voters rejected.

Looking back Gordon Brown replaced Tony Blair as Labour leader and Prime Minister with no election whatsoever. He received enough nominations to walk straight into the job. So virtually nobody in the UK got a say.

Both John Major and Theresa May became Prime Minister without a General Election.

And it's the same here. If JA decided to resign immediately after winning the next election the majority would have no say in who became Prime Minister.

Rikkitic

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#2287538 2-Aug-2019 10:06

In America the vote of one person can determine who is president. Or am I mistaken? I seem to recall Al Gore and the hanging chads in Florida. The vote of one Supreme Court justice can determine the law. There are lots of examples of simple majority travesties. I don't know a good solution. Do you?

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SJB

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#2287602 2-Aug-2019 11:27

I used to think that a change of Prime Minister or President should trigger a national election as we are in the era of personality politics but I'm not so sure now. It could make an unstable situation even worse.

And I've no idea how to solve the one vote conundrum.

Fred99

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#2287668 2-Aug-2019 13:34

SJB:

I used to think that a change of Prime Minister or President should trigger a national election as we are in the era of personality politics but I'm not so sure now. It could make an unstable situation even worse.

And I've no idea how to solve the one vote conundrum.

The UK would have probably avoided the worst of their present dilemma if they had PR rather than FPP.

SJB

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#2287675 2-Aug-2019 13:47

Fred99:

The UK would have probably avoided the worst of their present dilemma if they had PR rather than FPP.

You might be right there. The one thing PR can do is force compromises and in an age of such divided opinions that's no bad thing.

Dingbatt

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#2287788 2-Aug-2019 16:40

SJB:
Fred99:

The UK would have probably avoided the worst of their present dilemma if they had PR rather than FPP.

You might be right there. The one thing PR can do is force compromises and in an age of such divided opinions that's no bad thing.

You mean like our MMP, where one person decided who the Prime Minister was going to be (on more than one occasion)?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

elpenguino

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#2287796 2-Aug-2019 17:05

Dingbatt:
SJB:

Fred99:

The UK would have probably avoided the worst of their present dilemma if they had PR rather than FPP.

You might be right there. The one thing PR can do is force compromises and in an age of such divided opinions that's no bad thing.

You mean like our MMP, where one person decided who the Prime Minister was going to be (on more than one occasion)?

Were you there at the negotiations?

Were you there at the NZ first internal discussions?

Please tell us how you know it was one person?

I presume you mean Winston Peters, leader of NZ first.

Do you think a political party might need some kind of consensus to keep gelled together?

Back on topic.

It doesn't really matter which leader the UK has, they're going to crash out of the EU, come hell or climate-change-induced-inundation.

Any leader is hostage to the referendum, russian interference or no.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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Fred99

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#2287797 2-Aug-2019 17:08

Dingbatt:
SJB:

Fred99:

The UK would have probably avoided the worst of their present dilemma if they had PR rather than FPP.

You might be right there. The one thing PR can do is force compromises and in an age of such divided opinions that's no bad thing.

You mean like our MMP, where one person decided who the Prime Minister was going to be (on more than one occasion)?

He decided which of the larger parties he'd support in coalition to form a majority, not who the party leader would be. So not quite the same.

A foible of PR, but it's hard to say whether it's a bug or a feature.

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#2289433 4-Aug-2019 09:27

First published on POLITICO.eu, Belgium, August 3, 2019 | By Rytis Daukantas

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Varkk

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Ultimate Geek
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#2290027 5-Aug-2019 09:14

SJB:

I used to think that a change of Prime Minister or President should trigger a national election as we are in the era of personality politics but I'm not so sure now. It could make an unstable situation even worse.

And I've no idea how to solve the one vote conundrum.

I think under the current NZ Labour Party rules, if the leader were to be replaced it would trigger a contest similar to what we just saw in the UK. Labour party members would vote for the new leader, except under specific circumstances a few weeks out from a general election being the main one. There is a weighting with I think Caucus vote counting for 40%, General membership 40% and affiliated unions 20%. Not quite the same as a general election but certainly covering a fairly large section of the country. Compared with National and most other parties where the leader is chosen solely by caucus vote.

Dingbatt

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#2290846 6-Aug-2019 11:52

elpenguino:
Dingbatt:
SJB:

Fred99:

The UK would have probably avoided the worst of their present dilemma if they had PR rather than FPP.

You might be right there. The one thing PR can do is force compromises and in an age of such divided opinions that's no bad thing.

You mean like our MMP, where one person decided who the Prime Minister was going to be (on more than one occasion)?

Were you there at the negotiations?

Were you there at the NZ first internal discussions?

Please tell us how you know it was one person?

I presume you mean Winston Peters, leader of NZ first.

Do you think a political party might need some kind of consensus to keep gelled together?

Back on topic.

It doesn't really matter which leader the UK has, they're going to crash out of the EU, come hell or climate-change-induced-inundation.

Any leader is hostage to the referendum, russian interference or no.

You weren’t in the room when I formulated my post, I mentioned no names, yet you immediately thought of the Rt Hon Winston Peters. Nuff said.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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