Moment of Truth?

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Ultimate Geek
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#1129538 15-Sep-2014 23:42

marmel:
turnin:
johnr:
code15: I'm amazed at how many of you downplay this. Forget everything to do with dotcom. Focus on the real issue at hand please.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/254650/whistleblower-backs-mass-surveillance-claims

I don't care if they see what I do online I have nothing to hide so have nothing to worry about

I do have something to hide, I have a business and I communicate with my clients and we discuss ideas, business ideas, ideas that we don't want to end up in the hands of other people, especially competing companies.
Is that Ok ? Or should I shut my business down ?
I didn't know that dealing with another business meant I was doing something wrong.
I'm staggered to hear that viewpoint from someone who works where you do, where there are thousands of businesses that pay your salary.

If the government did have access to your information why are they going to share it with another company?

And the flip side of this is that if the government did have access to the information and became aware another country, China springs to mind, was stealing that information for their own use would you want something done about it?

I think a few people posting on this thread are sporting tin foil hats.

1/Money, Espionage, heard of it no? I must be nuts then.
2/ If it wasn't sitting on a server with the most comprehensive indexing system known to mankind it might be a little harder to find, once the chinese have it it's too late.
3/ what are we going to do to the Chinese if the do take it, send a letter ?

johnr

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#1129553 16-Sep-2014 03:37

turnin:
johnr:
code15: I'm amazed at how many of you downplay this. Forget everything to do with dotcom. Focus on the real issue at hand please.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/254650/whistleblower-backs-mass-surveillance-claims

I don't care if they see what I do online I have nothing to hide so have nothing to worry about

I do have something to hide, I have a business and I communicate with my clients and we discuss ideas, business ideas, ideas that we don't want to end up in the hands of other people, especially competing companies.
Is that Ok ? Or should I shut my business down ?
I didn't know that dealing with another business meant I was doing something wrong.
I'm staggered to hear that viewpoint from someone who works where you do, where there are thousands of businesses that pay your salary.

Please read my Post " I " not the company I work for, Hope I have cleared that up!

MikeB4

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#1129570 16-Sep-2014 07:03

My wife works for a large Asian Tech Corporation I guess everyone here should careful, she could be watching you...que the music. :p

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

freitasm

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#1129573 16-Sep-2014 07:20

johnr: I don't care if they see what I do online I have nothing to hide so have nothing to worry about

The "I have done nothing wrong, so have nothing to hide" argument is a fallacy.

At some moment situations change and anything and everything collected about someone can be used - for good or evil.

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freitasm

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#1129574 16-Sep-2014 07:20

Zippity: So we are expected to believe two "pussies" who are in hiding and don't have the balls to front up to put their cases?

Yeah Right!!!!

You believe they'd have a fair public trial?

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#1129575 16-Sep-2014 07:27

freitasm:
johnr: I don't care if they see what I do online I have nothing to hide so have nothing to worry about

The "I have done nothing wrong, so have nothing to hide" argument is a fallacy.

At some moment situations change and anything and everything collected about someone can be used - for good or evil.

This is NZ, only need to worry if it concerns, Rugby, Gumboots, Meat pies or Tui.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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sen8or

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#1129577 16-Sep-2014 07:46

What gets me about that email, is that supposedly KDC is some sort of internet master and has presumably intelligent people around him. Surely it's possible to prove the authenticity of an email? Electronic traces etc? If it were me hanging my hat on something like that to "change the government", I'd sure as hell have backup of some kind to substantiate my claim.

It's all a smoke and mirrors show to try and stop himself being deported.

Where's the dark knight and "sky hook" when you need him. Someone should drug him and put him on the next plane to the US, country would be a whole lot better off, and we could distribute his pantry to the schools in south Auckland and cure child hunger. 2 birds, 1 stone.........

Item

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#1129582 16-Sep-2014 08:05

johnr:

I don't care if they see what I do online I have nothing to hide so have nothing to worry about

The whole "nothing to hide, nothing to worry about" retort misses the point so spectacularly...

1) What about if your private information and communications was shared with your health insurers or the IRD or even advertisers without your consent or ability to contextualise it? Information about you gathered without your acceptance and knowledge is out of your control. What if a casual conversation or joke between friends put you on a watch list or no-fly list?

2) It has been proven again and again that those who collect this information are frequently unable to protect it. Do you want personal communications becoming public through leaks or hacks.

3) To take the argument to the nth degree - by your assertion "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" you would surely have no problem with the government or police accessing and recording footage from your laptop or smartphone corner or even putting cameras or microphones in your home in order to prevent crime, terrorism or sedition as you have "nothing to hide". If not, why? Where do you draw the line? Where does it end?

It's all for The Greater Good no?

JimmyC

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Ultimate Geek
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#1129602 16-Sep-2014 08:28

Talkiet: I can't remember the exact quote (I wish I could remember where I got it from)... But I am reminded of it...

"When you present an argument, ensure that you present facts, and not just opinions that you desperately wish were facts"

N

Speaking of which, Laila Harre spread an incredible amount of FUD on Firstline this morning. Michael Wilson was trying (in his own special way) to get definition on what it was exactly that the public should be worried about, citing Facebook and other private in theory yet public type sites. She basically laughed that away to say what we're looking at here is the same as having a video camera in everyones lounge. Seriously... And people wonder why we don't take politics and\or politicians seriously enough in this country.

BarTender

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#1129604 16-Sep-2014 08:34

KiwiNZ:
freitasm:
johnr: I don't care if they see what I do online I have nothing to hide so have nothing to worry about

The "I have done nothing wrong, so have nothing to hide" argument is a fallacy.

At some moment situations change and anything and everything collected about someone can be used - for good or evil.

This is NZ, only need to worry if it concerns, Rugby, Gumboots, Meat pies or Tui.

If only thaf were true. The whole point of the argument is that the spying is for commercial and political purposes.

Benjamin Franklin has it right you know.

Geektastic

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#1129605 16-Sep-2014 08:34

KiwiNZ: My wife works for a large Asian Tech Corporation I guess everyone here should careful, she could be watching you...que the music. :p

You jest.

However I know for a fact that there is a list of cell phone models banned from government buildings because overseas intelligence agencies can use them as active listening devices.

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frankv

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#1129607 16-Sep-2014 08:38

Item:
johnr:

I don't care if they see what I do online I have nothing to hide so have nothing to worry about

The whole "nothing to hide, nothing to worry about" retort misses the point so spectacularly...

I agree...

Let's assume that for some reason you are viewed by the Govt (or the GCSB or the FBI or the US Govt or the RIAA or Judith Collins or Cameron Slater) as a risk. Perhaps you're (openly... nothing to hide) a communist, or a Muslim who agrees with al Qaeda's principles, or a credible opponent of fracking, or claim to be John Key's homosexual lover, or a lawyer defending a politically unpopular client, a Trade Unionist, a boy racer/car enthusiast, Maori separatist, an anti-copyright activist, or any of a hundred different things.

Providing information to the Govt on (say) the state of your business, personal finances, personal life, or anything else provides them (and their friends/allies) with the power to effectively silence you.

Geektastic

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#1129609 16-Sep-2014 08:41

frankv:
Item:
johnr:

I don't care if they see what I do online I have nothing to hide so have nothing to worry about

The whole "nothing to hide, nothing to worry about" retort misses the point so spectacularly...

I agree...

Let's assume that for some reason you are viewed by the Govt (or the GCSB or the FBI or the US Govt or the RIAA or Judith Collins or Cameron Slater) as a risk. Perhaps you're (openly... nothing to hide) a communist, or a Muslim who agrees with al Qaeda's principles, or a credible opponent of fracking, or claim to be John Key's homosexual lover, or a lawyer defending a politically unpopular client, a Trade Unionist, a boy racer/car enthusiast, Maori separatist, an anti-copyright activist, or any of a hundred different things.

Providing information to the Govt on (say) the state of your business, personal finances, personal life, or anything else provides them (and their friends/allies) with the power to effectively silence you.

But equally it is true that someone with the budget and skill set of the NSA can TAKE that information any time they want it.

Generally they are not overly interested in people who have not drawn attention to themselves in some other way but frankly if they can find and lock up anyone who is sympathetic to AQ in NZ they do so with my 100% approval.

Talkiet

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#1129629 16-Sep-2014 09:04

Geektastic:
KiwiNZ: My wife works for a large Asian Tech Corporation I guess everyone here should careful, she could be watching you...que the music. :p

You jest.

However I know for a fact that there is a list of cell phone models banned from government buildings because overseas intelligence agencies can use them as active listening devices.

Proven that they are able to be used as active listening devices without the consent of the owners or network?

Or UNABLE TO PROVE that the phones DON'T have this feature?

Very important difference.

If it's the first, I would be very interested in seeing that list.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Geektastic

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#1129648 16-Sep-2014 09:15

Talkiet:
Geektastic:
KiwiNZ: My wife works for a large Asian Tech Corporation I guess everyone here should careful, she could be watching you...que the music. :p

You jest.

However I know for a fact that there is a list of cell phone models banned from government buildings because overseas intelligence agencies can use them as active listening devices.

Proven that they are able to be used as active listening devices without the consent of the owners or network?

Or UNABLE TO PROVE that the phones DON'T have this feature?

Very important difference.

If it's the first, I would be very interested in seeing that list.

Cheers - N

IIRC the former and the list is classified even if I still had it, which I don't!

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