When will NZ get equal rights for ALL citizens?

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification

Forums › Politics › When will NZ get equal rights for ALL citizens?

1 | ... | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | ... | 17

2572 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 233

#398798 1-Nov-2010 21:06

Teeps:
Which is why I've questioned peoples reasons in this thread as to why they believe we should not be able to adopt. I will listen to someones reasoning (I'm not saying I accept it but I will listen to why they believe what they do) but on the whole (I'm not saying everyone) there is no reason at all, it's just 'because', that doesn't help me understand why they believe what they do so I am unlikely to accept their point of view

This is the major thing that really pisses me off.

As I said before, "It is because I say it is".
"It's unnatural" "Why?" "Because it is!" "OK, so here are a whole bunch of other unnatural things" "Those don't matter! Just you fags can't do this thing I don't like" "...."

tardtasticx

3084 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 483

#398799 1-Nov-2010 21:08

geekiegeek: Homosexualtiy is not unnatural and is not a problem as far as I am concerned.

The reason I used the wording of unnatuarl is in relation to the fact that without adoption there is no natual way for a gay couple to have children. You cant really argue against that as fact.

so to reiterate my personal view. I feel that society should not change this natural law just because we can and some would like it changed. I have no issue with gay marriage or equal rights for gay people in any other respect. Whether gay people would make good parents or not is also not my point at all.

Well what about couples that cannot conceive for whatever reason? They have IVF treatment. Thats not natural. But its allowed and is more accepted. If someone is infertile then its the way its meant to be apparently.

kyhwana2

2572 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 233

#398802 1-Nov-2010 21:08

First you say:

geekiegeek: Homosexualtiy is not unnatural and is not a problem as far as I am concerned.

And then you say:

so to reiterate my personal view. I feel that society should not change this natural law just because we can and some would like it changed.

Hrrrr?

DeroyBoy

262 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 35

Trusted

#398805 1-Nov-2010 21:12

kyhwana2: First you say:
geekiegeek: Homosexualtiy is not unnatural and is not a problem as far as I am concerned.

And then you say:

so to reiterate my personal view. I feel that society should not change this natural law just because we can and some would like it changed.

Hrrrr?

In a free country people do not have to justify their beliefs.

tardtasticx

3084 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 483

#398807 1-Nov-2010 21:13

DeroyBoy:
kyhwana2: First you say:
geekiegeek: Homosexualtiy is not unnatural and is not a problem as far as I am concerned.

And then you say:

so to reiterate my personal view. I feel that society should not change this natural law just because we can and some would like it changed.

Hrrrr?

In a free country people do not have to justify their beliefs.

In a free country people do not have to fight to marry the person they love. And we don't have to fight for our beliefs either.

Teeps

501 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 26

#398809 1-Nov-2010 21:16

DeroyBoy: That is how a democracy works, it is a far from perfect system but it is better than any of the others.?
Its is ok to push for change, but you just have to respect others have the right to push against it and you need to convince a majority before anything will happen.?

That's the frustrating bit though, the rights you take for granted we have to convince people to give us. I am just me, a guy, I don't feel different, i haven't made a choice to be different and I'm not different apart from the fact my choice of sexual partner happens to be the same sex as me! But when you're told you don't have the same rights as other people you are the same as (apart from your sexual preference) it can be very frustrating as you just as 'why', especially when you're told that 'when we get used to you we will let you have the same rights as us, maybe, but bear with us because it's a lot to take in'!

It goes down the same line as people thinking you should tell them you're gay. I made a conscious decision over 20 years ago to not hide my sexuality from anyone, I don't make a point of going up to someone and saying 'btw, I'm gay' but i do not avoid talking about my sexuality, but there are a certain section of people who believe you should tell them you're gay and then give them space to take it in, as if it affects their lives, tbh that's just insulting.

Geekzone

Want to support Geekzone and browse the site without the ads? Subscribe to Geekzone now (monthly, annual and lifetime options).

geekiegeek

2513 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 625
Inactive user

#398811 1-Nov-2010 21:19

hetrosexual couples are able to concieve children - law of nature.

It is not possible for homosexuals to concieve children - law of nature.

Some people are born homosexual - law of nature.

I dont see how I am condrodicting myself here? I also dont think you can use IVF etc as proof that we make exceptions as these are still only used with hetroseual couples - i.e. this does not go against the laws of nature stated above.

Teeps

501 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 26

#398816 1-Nov-2010 21:22

geekiegeek: hetrosexual couples are able to concieve children - law of nature.

It is not possible for homosexuals to concieve children - law of nature.

Some people are born homosexual - law of nature.

I dont see how I am condrodicting myself here? I also dont think you can use IVF etc as proof that we make exceptions as these are still only used with hetroseual couples - i.e. this does not go against the laws of nature stated above.

Pardon? I am gay and I am perfectly capable of conceiving a child! I agree I cannot do it with my partner but that does not make me incapable of conceiving. Being gay doesn't make me infertile.

alasta

6891 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3365

Trusted

Subscriber

#398817 1-Nov-2010 21:22

I am astounded that noone has yet acknowledged that the natural parents of the child being adopted may have preferences for the environment that the child should be brought up in. Surely that counts for something.

In regards to homosexuality in general, I totally support the 1980s homosexual law reform as I strongly believe that consenting adults should be free to do as they wish, but I do get tired of hearing people moaning about the outcomes of their own lifestyle choices.

tardtasticx

3084 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 483

#398818 1-Nov-2010 21:22

geekiegeek: hetrosexual couples are able to concieve children - law of nature.

It is not possible for homosexuals to concieve children - law of nature.

Some people are born homosexual - law of nature.

I dont see how I am condrodicting myself here? I also dont think you can use IVF etc as proof that we make exceptions as these are still only used with hetroseual couples - i.e. this does not go against the laws of nature stated above.

Well yeh it does go against your laws of nature. nature wanted that couple to be infertile for what ever reason.

tardtasticx

3084 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 483

#398820 1-Nov-2010 21:24

alasta: I am astounded that noone has yet acknowledged that the natural parents of the child being adopted may have preferences for the environment that the child should be brought up in. Surely that counts for something.

In regards to homosexuality in general, I totally support the 1980s homosexual law reform as I strongly believe that consenting adults should be free to do as they wish, but I do get tired of hearing people moaning about the outcomes of their own lifestyle choices.

See thats insulting. Being gay isnt a choice. We dont choose to be gay. And the parents who's child went up for adoption forfit the rights when they gave that child away, maybe because they were a teenage mother who couldt afford it/didnt want it, maybe a mother who was abusive. Why should they get to choose the outcome of the child they wern't good enough to keep? What makes them comparable to us?

Dell

Shop now for Dell laptops and other devices (affiliate link).

geekiegeek

2513 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 625
Inactive user

#398821 1-Nov-2010 21:26

Teeps:
geekiegeek: hetrosexual couples are able to concieve children - law of nature.

It is not possible for homosexuals to concieve children - law of nature.

Some people are born homosexual - law of nature.

I dont see how I am condrodicting myself here? I also dont think you can use IVF etc as proof that we make exceptions as these are still only used with hetroseual couples - i.e. this does not go against the laws of nature stated above.

Pardon? I am gay and I am perfectly capable of conceiving a child! I agree I cannot do it with my partner but that does not make me incapable of conceiving. Being gay doesn't make me infertile.

Teeps, come on :-) I think you know what I mean. I didnt think I had to spell it out to the letter.

Also agreed that IVF could be seen as unnatual.

kyhwana2

2572 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 233

#398822 1-Nov-2010 21:27

DeroyBoy:
kyhwana2: First you say:
geekiegeek: Homosexualtiy is not unnatural and is not a problem as far as I am concerned.

And then you say:

so to reiterate my personal view. I feel that society should not change this natural law just because we can and some would like it changed.

Hrrrr?

In a free country people do not have to justify their beliefs.

Wow! Nice cop out there.
Why should I not break into your house and steal your stuff? After all you have more stuff than me and I feel I should be able to take it. I shouldn't have to justify why I believe that.

tardtasticx

3084 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 483

#398823 1-Nov-2010 21:27

Teeps:
DeroyBoy: That is how a democracy works, it is a far from perfect system but it is better than any of the others.?
Its is ok to push for change, but you just have to respect others have the right to push against it and you need to convince a majority before anything will happen.?

That's the frustrating bit though, the rights you take for granted we have to convince people to give us. I am just me, a guy, I don't feel different, i haven't made a choice to be different and I'm not different apart from the fact my choice of sexual partner happens to be the same sex as me! But when you're told you don't have the same rights as other people you are the same as (apart from your sexual preference) it can be very frustrating as you just as 'why', especially when you're told that 'when we get used to you we will let you have the same rights as us, maybe, but bear with us because it's a lot to take in'!

It goes down the same line as people thinking you should tell them you're gay. I made a conscious decision over 20 years ago to not hide my sexuality from anyone, I don't make a point of going up to someone and saying 'btw, I'm gay' but i do not avoid talking about my sexuality, but there are a certain section of people who believe you should tell them you're gay and then give them space to take it in, as if it affects their lives, tbh that's just insulting.

exactly. We go through all those years of stress and worry about what people will think and when we finally gather the courage to come out we still don't get anything back at all. its hard coming out, one of the hardest things i've ever done. I follow all the laws by the government, I dont even drink or smoke. People have no reason to hate me because I dont do anything nasty to them. They choose to not allow me to adopt with my partner entirely on the fact we're the same gender.

Teeps

501 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 26

#398824 1-Nov-2010 21:28

alasta: I am astounded that noone has yet acknowledged that the natural parents of the child being adopted may have preferences for the environment that the child should be brought up in. Surely that counts for something.

In regards to homosexuality in general, I totally support the 1980s homosexual law reform as I strongly believe that consenting adults should be free to do as they wish, but I do get tired of hearing people moaning about the outcomes of their own lifestyle choices.

Did you choose your hair colour? Being gay isn't a lifestyle choice it is how I am, it is part of me just as the colour of your hair is part of you.

1 | ... | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | ... | 17