NZ 2023 Election Thread

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#3159836 15-Nov-2023 14:54

Shane Jones indicates NZ First plans to ride the treaty horse

NZHerald: Senior New Zealand First MP Shane Jones made supportive remarks about Act leader David Seymour’s approach to the issue of the Treaty of Waitangi this morning, saying there would be a “reset” in Māori policy under the new Government.

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#3159837 15-Nov-2023 14:55

SJB:

The day after the election Luxon didn't even know if he would need Peters.

But it didn't take a genius to make a good guess. The day after the election he had exactly enough for a majority. That's only one Aaron Gilmore/Jamie-Lee Ross/Gaurav Sharma away from disaster. And only a dreamer would pin their hopes on "well this time the specials will punish Labour!" when history suggests the specials always take 1-2 seats away from National/Act and give them to Labour/Greens.

So no, he didn't know he would need NZF. But it was dumb not to move ahead as if he would. Worst case scenario the specials punished Labour, he gets a 2-seat bonus, and then tells Winston thanks for coming.

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#3159838 15-Nov-2023 14:57

gzt: Shane Jones indicates NZ First plans to ride the treaty horse

NZHerald: Senior New Zealand First MP Shane Jones made supportive remarks about Act leader David Seymour’s approach to the issue of the Treaty of Waitangi this morning, saying there would be a “reset” in Māori policy under the new Government.

Well... it's going to be an interesting three years then.

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#3159860 15-Nov-2023 16:10

This is one of the funniest article about this whole "negotiation": Luxon, Peters and Seymour meet: A close analysis of the first triumvirate photograph | The Spinoff

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#3159862 15-Nov-2023 16:14

SaltyNZ:

Luxon has made much of his ability to get a deal, pointing to his days as a CEO (of Air NZ if you haven't caught that one yet).

As one source told me, no successful person they'd met ever rattled off how successful they were, but Luxon works his own success into many a conversation.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#3159864 15-Nov-2023 16:25

freitasm:

This is one of the funniest article about this whole "negotiation": Luxon, Peters and Seymour meet: A close analysis of the first triumvirate photograph | The Spinoff

Winston smiling as he is in control

Dave not smiling as he is not in control

Chris smiling as he thinks he is in control

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#3159867 15-Nov-2023 16:35

tdgeek:

freitasm:

This is one of the funniest article about this whole "negotiation": Luxon, Peters and Seymour meet: A close analysis of the first triumvirate photograph | The Spinoff

Winston smiling as he is in control

Dave not smiling as he is not in control

Chris smiling as he thinks he is in control

The Art of Politics is Smiling at the Crocodile :-)

Never smile at a crocodile
No, you can't get friendly with a crocodile
Don't be taken in by his welcome grin
He's imagining how well you'd fit within his skin
Never smile at a crocodile

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#3159870 15-Nov-2023 16:37

tdgeek:

freitasm:

This is one of the funniest article about this whole "negotiation": Luxon, Peters and Seymour meet: A close analysis of the first triumvirate photograph | The Spinoff

Winston smiling as he is in control

Dave not smiling as he is not in control

Chris smiling as he thinks he is in control

Luxon's smile is starting to look just a little bit forced to me.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#3159871 15-Nov-2023 16:39

freitasm:

SJB:

Same as the previous one then.

Whataboutism doesn't help.

But that's not what National promised and that's not what some people voted for.

As I recall they explicitly said they would prefer not to work with NZ First but here we are.

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#3159873 15-Nov-2023 16:49

freitasm:

GV27:

I don't recall getting day-by-day updates on coalition negotiations previously.

And let us not forgot that the 2017 election was in September and it took almost a month and a press conference from Winston Peters for National to even find out who he was going with.

No day-by-day updates but this article has a nice chart on how long negotiations took to form previous governments: How long should government negotiations take? And when is a redo election required? | Stuff.co.nz

It's worth adding an extra week onto all of those graphs and into the future. There has been an extra week added to the time to count the special votes which has slowed things down in an election like this where the special votes have been particularly impactful.

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#3159874 15-Nov-2023 16:51

SaltyNZ:

SJB:

The day after the election Luxon didn't even know if he would need Peters.

But it didn't take a genius to make a good guess. The day after the election he had exactly enough for a majority. That's only one Aaron Gilmore/Jamie-Lee Ross/Gaurav Sharma away from disaster. And only a dreamer would pin their hopes on "well this time the specials will punish Labour!" when history suggests the specials always take 1-2 seats away from National/Act and give them to Labour/Greens.

So no, he didn't know he would need NZF. But it was dumb not to move ahead as if he would. Worst case scenario the specials punished Labour, he gets a 2-seat bonus, and then tells Winston thanks for coming.

Why would any side negotiate in any meaningful way without understanding whether NZF were required? The negotiations would not remain confidential after the government was formed and would just have been a rod for everyones back if NZF were not required.

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#3160098 16-Nov-2023 10:56

NZTA: On the road, e-scooters must be operated as near as practicable to the edge of the roadway. A helmet is not legally required to be worn when using an e-scooter, but is recommended.

Live: National MP catches e-scooter to talks after 'debacle of a morning'

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301009170/live-national-mp-catches-escooter-to-talks-after-debacle-of-a-morning

MÃ„Âori mÃ„Â - Last chance to change roll type midnight August 6th

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#3160099 16-Nov-2023 10:57

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301009170/live-national-mp-catches-escooter-to-talks-after-debacle-of-a-morning

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#3160102 16-Nov-2023 11:14

Handle9:

Why would any side negotiate in any meaningful way without understanding whether NZF were required? The negotiations would not remain confidential after the government was formed and would just have been a rod for everyones back if NZF were not required.

Because it's Winston Peters. Chris Luxon may not know Winston Peters (though I bet he sure wishes he had by now) but as Paddy said, "He's Winston Peters!" Like, the Winston Peters famous for being the picture next to the definition of the word "capricious" in the dictionary. With the possible exception of Shane Jones, the rest of NZF seem like reasonably sensible people. But Winston is perfectly capable of inventing a new policy on the spot to thwart you just because you pissed him off.

Luxon could have saved himself a lot of time and angst by talking to Winston first thing the next morning - and then ditching him later in the unlikely event he wasn't going to be needed.

Meh, I'm sure the master of mergers & acquisitions will put Winston in his rightful place.

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#3160139 16-Nov-2023 13:28

While not a fan of NZ First and the way Winston operates.
Surely its not just that people find 'Grumpy Cat' charming and irresistible.
Ok it worked for Wayne Brown but surely a one off.

So there is policy 'enough' people like that they did not find in ACT National offering.

I tried looking you nzfirst website again just to review stated policies,
https://www.nzfirst.nz/policy

and got 404.

""
This www.nzfirst.nz page can’t be foundNo webpage was found for the web address: https://www.nzfirst.nz/
""

Maybe some revisioning and refresh of website in light of talks perhaps ?
It was working a few days ago..

Someone added this to Piholes list of dangerous websites ?

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