A police officer is dead and another hurt after a traffic stop in Auckland

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Forums › Politics › A police officer is dead and another hurt after a traffic stop in Auckland

JaseNZ

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#272316 19-Jun-2020 13:16

Its a tragedy when anybody dies in their line of their work, My thought's go out to the all the families greatly affected by this.

It is certainly going to fuel the debate of police carrying arms.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/121882364/two-cops-shot-another-person-hit-by-car-after-traffic-stop-in-west-aucklands-massey

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#2508073 19-Jun-2020 13:31

Without knowing details of the incident, if it was a routine stop, I'm not really sure how having a gun would've helped anyone in this situation?

Fred99

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#2508094 19-Jun-2020 13:39

It is certainly going to fuel the debate of police carrying arms.

When at a guess (in absence of any real verified information), based on past incidents that fit the apparent profile, the debate should probably be about the futility of the "war on drugs" that we've been losing for 1/2 century. People don't normally pull out guns and shoot cops in routine traffic stops. Not even in Mexico.

Dial111

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#2508096 19-Jun-2020 13:41

bazzer:
Without knowing details of the incident, if it was a routine stop, I'm not really sure how having a gun would've helped anyone in this situation?

Exactly, unless the police treat everyone as if they’re carrying a deadly weapon but look how that has turned out in the US.

JaseNZ

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#2508131 19-Jun-2020 14:09

bazzer:

Without knowing details of the incident, if it was a routine stop, I'm not really sure how having a gun would've helped anyone in this situation?

Totally agree, was meaning those who want police armed are going to jump on this pretty quickly.

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surfisup1000

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#2508139 19-Jun-2020 14:21

Fred99:

People don't normally pull out guns and shoot cops in routine traffic stops. Not even in Mexico.

Can't let that slide..... Don't you know anything about the drug cartels in Mexico?

Bung

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#2508143 19-Jun-2020 14:24

Dial111:
bazzer:
Without knowing details of the incident, if it was a routine stop, I'm not really sure how having a gun would've helped anyone in this situation?

Exactly, unless the police treat everyone as if they’re carrying a deadly weapon but look how that has turned out in the US.

I believe that was the conclusion Commissioner Broad came to a few years ago. Unless the weapon is already drawn and aimed it won't make much diiference and he did not think the NZ public were ready for that.

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dejadeadnz

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#2508144 19-Jun-2020 14:24

People need to guard against the disgusting law and order types trying to run a reductionist Blue Lives Matter campaign on the back of this kind of incident. Nor should scrutiny of police conduct or policies be reduced as a result. For example, where's the similar howling outrage when innocent bystanders are killed during police chases? Multiple Australian states have banned chases of alleged offenders except for all by the most exceptional cases.

maoriboy

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#2508150 19-Jun-2020 14:39

I'm assuming some comments that were in reply to a certain comment were removed?

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#2508154 19-Jun-2020 14:45

maoriboy:

I'm assuming some comments that were in reply to a certain comment were removed?

yes it was a shocking comment and that person needs serious help

surfisup1000

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#2508155 19-Jun-2020 14:45

This is really sad, unfortunately, we have extremely nasty criminals in this country.

The whole gang scene seems to be getting out of control, especially around my home area in the bay of plenty. This gang scene is also being fueled by deported kiwi crims coming in from Australia who use their connections to expand their criminality into New Zealand.

dejadeadnz

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#2508157 19-Jun-2020 14:47

Fred99:

It is certainly going to fuel the debate of police carrying arms.

When at a guess (in absence of any real verified information), based on past incidents that fit the apparent profile, the debate should probably be about the futility of the "war on drugs" that we've been losing for 1/2 century. People don't normally pull out guns and shoot cops in routine traffic stops. Not even in Mexico.

The debate will come down to what kind of style of policing NZers want -- for myself, I simply don't accept any kind of policing where the police routinely draw guns at people like the cops do in America. Having prosecuted, defended, and worked for judges, I do not remotely trust the average beat cop's training. Unlike the US police unions, I do not think the most important thing is the safety of the cops. The balance of the safety of the public, cops, and suspects they encounter is what matters.

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elpenguino

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#2508161 19-Jun-2020 14:57

surfisup1000:

This is really sad, unfortunately, we have extremely nasty criminals in this country.

The whole gang scene seems to be getting out of control, especially around my home area in the bay of plenty. This gang scene is also being fueled by deported kiwi crims coming in from Australia who use their connections to expand their criminality into New Zealand.

Nasty compared to utopia but they score on the world rankings about the same as the all whites.

Whenever my wife says similar things (there's so many murders these days !!) I take her to the police web site and look at the statistics. Last time we checked the rate was in decline.

I suggest you do the same rather than rely on appearances..

I'm not saying there's no crime or that crime is not bad just that things may not be as bad as the media paints it to be.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

Jvipers2

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#2508162 19-Jun-2020 14:58

My thought's go out to the all the families & officers greatly affected by this...

Bodycams would help to identify the criminals...

JaseNZ

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#2508167 19-Jun-2020 15:03

Jvipers2:

Bodycams would help to identify the criminals...

I just don't get why these are not mandatory.

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#2508173 19-Jun-2020 15:14

dejadeadnz:

I simply don't accept any kind of policing where the police routinely draw guns at people like the cops do in America. Having prosecuted, defended, and worked for judges, I do not remotely trust the average beat cop's training.

Unlike the movies, it isn't routine for police to draw guns on people in America. It's not unheard of for a policeman to never pull a gun on someone in their entire career, let alone shoot, let alone kill.

From https://www.csindy.com/coloradosprings/departments-often-discourage-cops-to-draw-weapons/Content?oid=13168904

The Colorado Springs PD has logged 1,673 instances where officers pointed their firearms at people, about 105 times per month on average, from February 2017 through June 5. (If three officers all point their weapons during the same incident, that counts as three reports, not one.) The department had three reports of discharges of weapons by officers in 2016, and 10 in 2017; figures for 2018 are not yet available, says Koch.

Colorado Springs is a city of about 470,000, so I'd guess the size of greater Wellington? It has 700 sworn police officers. So on average 1 in 7 cops pulls a gun on somebody in any given month.

Likelihood of firing a weapon is increased by white, male, ex-military, being in a large city, and a few other factors:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/08/a-closer-look-at-police-officers-who-have-fired-their-weapon-on-duty/

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