Similar issues of public concern

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Forums › Politics › Similar issues of public concern - NZ and UK

eracode

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#304077 3-Apr-2023 04:18

As mentioned in my signature below, we are currently in the UK and have been here about six weeks. When you’re in a place on holiday you don’t usually get a feel for the social and economic issues that concern locals - but when you’re here for a longer period, you can and do.

We watch TV news and listen to quite a lot of news/talk radio here. It seems like we’re living in a parallel universe with NZ - like déjà vu all over again. There are myriad issues we’ve become aware of here that are same as in NZ - despite the large difference in population.

I know that the factors that have caused some of these issues (eg. COVID and its economic treatment by politicians, climate change, etc) are the same in many countries so maybe similarities shouldn’t be surprising. However the similarities between NZ and UK are quite striking and I’m not sure they would exist to the same degree between other country-pairs. Not sure what point I’m trying to make - perhaps just that it’s ‘interesting’ and there is no real point.

Here is a list that has come to mind - in no particular order - and I know there’s other things we’ve noticed but that I can’t think of immediately:

- Decreased healthcare/hospital service levels and very long waiting lists/times for surgery

- Dangerous wait times for ambulances to arrive at scenes

- Inability of hospitals to accept and clear waiting ambulances with critical cases aboard

- Waiting times for and accessibility of GPs

- Widespread poor maintenance resulting in massive numbers of dangerous potholes in roads that damage tyres

- Erosion of coastline affecting houses

- Labour shortages in trucking, public transport, hospitals, hospitality, old-age care, airlines and lots of other sectors

- Mixed opinions on recently-increased minimum wage rules. $22.70 in NZ, £10.42 in UK, = ~ $20.80.

- Declining education standards incl literacy and numeracy

- Perceived low wage rates for teachers, nurses and junior doctors

- Inflation

- Street crime and antisocial behaviour

- Perceived weakness in sentencing by judiciary

- Ideology-lead local authorities that want to stop people using cars

- House prices that have gone to untenable price:income ratios in recent years making it more difficult than ever for first home buyers.

- Frequent discharge of sewage into the sea following heavy rainfall.

- Farm effluent getting into waterways.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

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#3057961 3-Apr-2023 07:00

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make either.

Our population density may be lower than that of the UK, we are suffering with a 160% population increase over 70 years, vs the UK's comparatively modest 30%, while neither having experienced living in higher density nor planned for it. It's not surprising our infrastructure is suffering under a much lower burden.

The social issues I believe are largely the result of the breakdown of traditional family values. I'm not religious, but I do consider religious teachings to be based on acquired human knowledge - observations codified in stories and beliefs. It seems that all too often, those who seek to rid the world of such beliefs, do so without regard for why they may have existed in the first place.

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MikeB4

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#3057962 3-Apr-2023 07:33

I can speak to the medical issue comparison. On christmas day last my wife had to use 111 to get an ambulance for me. She told me the ambulance arrived with 5 minutes after getting off the phone to 111 who advised that the ambulance had been dispatched as they spoke.

I can ring my medical centre and if it is a semi urgent I can get an appointment the same day or I can have a video or phone consult with my GP they will also send nursing staff to take bloods or to administer medication.

I can usually get into see specialists within two weeks and can talk to the hospital unit when needed.

As for this (I don't want to politicise this thread) "Ideology-lead local authorities that want to stop people using cars" I don't see this as a problem.

freitasm

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#3057980 3-Apr-2023 08:27

SirHumphreyAppleby:

I'm not religious, but I do consider religious teachings to be based on acquired human knowledge - observations codified in stories and beliefs. It seems that all too often, those who seek to rid the world of such beliefs, do so without regard for why they may have existed in the first place.

Neither religions or gods are required for moral values. These can be passed - and are passed - by family and communities. Human knowledge is passed through open and free education for all.

Moral and knowledge are not a religious monopoly.

SirHumphreyAppleby:

The social issues I believe are largely the result of the breakdown of traditional family values.

More likely to be caused by a lack of proper and wide access to education and backward misconceptions enshrined by that.

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Senecio

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#3057989 3-Apr-2023 08:36

I think if you spent enough time in any developed country you would come up with the same list as above.

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#3057995 3-Apr-2023 08:44

freitasm:

Neither religions or gods are required for moral values. These can be passed - and are passed - by family and communities. Human knowledge is passed through open and free education for all.

I'm not disagreeing. Religious teachings provide a framework to do just that - pass on values within families and communities. Historically, open and free education hasn't been available to most.

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#3057998 3-Apr-2023 08:45

SirHumphreyAppleby:

freitasm:

Neither religions or gods are required for moral values. These can be passed - and are passed - by family and communities. Human knowledge is passed through open and free education for all.

I'm not disagreeing. Religious teachings provide a framework to do just that - pass on values within families and communities. Historically, open and free education hasn't been available to most.

The problem I see is religions tend to turn people into bigots, instead of teaching acceptance.

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rb99

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#3058000 3-Apr-2023 08:48

Too many people who are happy to receive public services until it comes time to pay for them.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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#3058004 3-Apr-2023 08:50

Education based on religion fails in so many aspects. It is not education with freedom of thought it is all tainted with a preordained dogma that influences all of that educational process and outcomes.

eracode

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#3058017 3-Apr-2023 09:10

Senecio:

I think if you spent enough time in any developed country you would come up with the same list as above.

I think that you’re probably right.

Some people may disagree or debate whether some of these issues apply in NZ but I’m pretty sure they’re correct for the UK - even after only six weeks experience. All of them have received extended news coverage since we’ve been here.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

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#3058050 3-Apr-2023 09:33

freitasm:

Neither religions or gods are required for moral values. These can be passed - and are passed - by family and communities. Human knowledge is passed through open and free education for all.

Moral and knowledge are not a religious monopoly.

There is some evidence for ethics in animals. Suggesting that ethics exist in their own right as a biological trait, independently of supernatural beliefs (unless we theorise that animals have supernatural beliefs).

In particular some research on primates - monkeys will engage in solidarity when offered differing rewards. Then there is Panksepp's ground-breaking work on 'fair play' in rats.

It's fairly rudimentary stuff but you can see some faint precursors for human ethics. Obviously grain of salt here as the potential for anthropomorphism is high.

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#3058132 3-Apr-2023 10:57

eracode:

It seems like we’re living in a parallel universe with NZ - like déjà vu all over again. There are myriad issues we’ve become aware of here that are same as in NZ - despite the large difference in population.

Interesting but not that surprising is it? (you left out creeping dis-information in the form of antivaxxers and other conspiracy theorists).

Look at the similarities between the countries - our democracies and economies are set up in very similar ways.

And why the declines, perceived or real?

Look at when the 'good old days' finished. Sometime around the 60s, 70s depending on who you ask. What happened in the 80s? Neoliberal economic policies hit Western democracies (Reagonomics, Thatcherism, Roger Douglas etc.) and it's been downhill since then.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

freitasm

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#3058421 3-Apr-2023 14:06

Conspiracy theorists need not to post. Someone's been banned.

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freitasm

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#3058423 3-Apr-2023 14:07

I am moving this discussion to a more appropriate sub-forum.

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#3058553 3-Apr-2023 17:31

I daresay UK is in a worse situation economically by virtue of Brexit realities hitting home.
We don't really have an equivalent to this.

Our commodities have been in demand at high prices throughout Covid.
UK's Brexit has perhaps expanded our potential markets in UK to add more diversity to exports.
It was funny that after getting what he wanted Dyson went to Singapore.

We might have a similar Nursing and Doctor situation, though UK may find it easier to keep what it trains.
NZ by contrast has Australia with 30-40% higher income, maybe more for doctors.
A similar enough culture and language to be an easy shift.
Recent trawl through NZ apparently netted Australia 2000 Nurses?
We both needed to train far more years ago, but keeping skilled people is another harder matter for us.

The just buy in skills from overseas.
It only does so much when the rest of the world is doing the same, and you just become steppingstone to Australia.

Skills shortages are pretty common to many countries, and they are all competing for talent.
People have gone for low impact Government which means less support for training, let industry do it etc.

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#3058560 3-Apr-2023 18:06

It’s amazing that Jacinda Ardern caused the same problems in the UK as in New Zealand.

Does her power know no bounds? (Or there may be some systemic economic problems which are very difficult for individual governments to solve.)

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