Speaker Wiring (New Home)

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thekiwi

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Ultimate Geek
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#16079 24-Sep-2007 08:14

Hi all

Just wanting advise and possible an online source for in wall speaker wiring.

Have got approx 3 weeks till Gib starts going on, have nearly finished my Cat5e and RG6 wiring, but have no idea on the speaker cable side of things. Basically just want to get the wire in the wall and terminated at outlets.

We will never have full on Audiophile equipment, but want to have the flexibility / quality for the future.

From a very simple understanding Its prob best to get 16 Gauge or lower?

If someone can point me to some online sources would be great.

Cheers

wazzab

84 posts

Master Geek
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#88036 25-Sep-2007 10:34

I too am in the same predicament. The likes of the hi-fi shop seems to want to clip the ticket a bit and sell $5/m cable which seems a bit high. I’ve been told to spend at least 10% of your audio cost on your speaker cable. I’m heading towards some mid range Belkin Silver Series 16AWG Hi-Performance Speaker Cable. Not quite sure but it is available in 50M rolls so will plan my runs carefully but will need a few rolls. Specs are here. http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=192446#

Regs

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Snowflake

#88047 25-Sep-2007 12:00

There is a lot of kit available which you can only buy through electrical wholesalers such as JA Russell. Perhaps you might consider calling someone who does this for a living and getting a quote? I'm sure they pay a lot less than we would buying retail, and have access to a lot more nice stuff. I expect it will also be cheaper if your GIB is currently off too. Maybe they won't come in much more expensive than DIY.

I saw a PDL stand at the home show the other day, they were showing off some of this modular range of product here: http://www.pdl.co.nz/products-nav.aspx?id=1000

There is a full catalog online, along with PDFs for installation etc

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kevthesparky

79 posts

Master Geek

#88102 25-Sep-2007 22:04

Go to your local electrical wholesaler as they will have all the kit you need. Personally I would recommend the PDL 600 series fittings.

A bit confused when you say in wall speaker wiring but then go on to say terminated at outlets.

If this is a new house build you could consider in wall speakers commonly placed in a bulk head or ceiling these are un-obtrusive and are terminated in the wall these are usually fully enclosed in a box to enhance sound.

or if what I think you mean is terminated outlets.

If placing outlets up high (ie. wall mounted) go for the PDL 662VH Architrave 2 aperture cover plate. To go with this you will need 2 Banana connector modules (commonly 1 Red and 1 Black). These are nice and small and eaisly hidden behind speakers. Remember if placing speakers high to ensure you have good bracing. Dont! use solder connectors

Your local electrical wholesaler will help you out and as for cable I would recommend using a good quality OXF (Oxygen free Cable).

Have fun.

richms

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#88158 26-Sep-2007 12:07

We used 2.5mm twin for speaker cabling here, at the moment it just comes out a hole in the wall because those jacks are pretty pricey, but the hole is a standard flushplate size with a box.

I dont like the idea of binding posts for speakers, I would prefer something designed for the job like speakons, so there is less to clean, it seems that audio plate manufacturers like to cover all surfaces of their things in gharish gold, making it like some sort of pointless ugly bling.

Richard rich.ms

xeroid

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#88303 27-Sep-2007 13:29

Bit of an audiophile nut here. The 'gold plate' is gold plate to minimise corrosion and thus resistive losses at the connection and does matter. My rear speakers are hooked up with very heavy cable slung under the house ( the joy of old wooden floored houses with real piles) and cost about $10 meter. Plugs about $12.50 each, 4 at each end of the cable so a set of rear, front, and centre will be 40 plugs . The sub gets its own special cbale cos it's digital to it's own amp, another $100 or so.
If you are serious about good sound you will not regret putting in good cable.

The other alternative at house build is to drill all the holes through nogs etc and put in pull down strings so you can run the cables later as long as you have ceiling access to the top wall plates of course.

I'm running Denon Amp, player etc and Polk Audio Studio speaker system.

richms

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#88370 27-Sep-2007 19:04

Yes, gold is less susceptible to corrosion then other metals, but there is no need for the outside of a speaker terminal to be covered in it. In fact, I don't like the idea of all that unnecessary exposed metal that the PDL plates have at all being connected to the amp output where is is easy to end up shorting it out, and most banana plugs dont have any real locking mechanisim unless you get some reasonably high end ones.

2.5mm is more area then most speaker cables provide, and the rears are hardly driven much to make any losses there relevant on the low power levels of a home system anyway. I think you can get 4mm twin, not 100% sure since it was a long time ago that I looked and I needed the 2.5 twin for some festoon lights too so it made buying a roll more tollerable.

Most audio branded cables are not suitable for inwall use unless you pay a lot more for it. Those tacky transparent insulated cables in no way are ok for inwall use.

Richard rich.ms

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xeroid

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#88466 28-Sep-2007 09:05

The losses aren't resistive, more frequency lagging at the upper end which distorts the audio waveform. My system uses twin paired multistranded cabling. Cable itself is about the thickness of my little finger and the 4 conductors are separated inside not only by their own insulation but by the physical position within the outer case moulding. They are also designated as two twisted counter rotated pairs to further minimise capacitive/inductance reactive losses. Copper is low oxygen/impurity to minimise 'hotspots' of frequency reflective anomalies.

Re the gold, probably just easier to plate the whole plug unit rather than be selective. Quick coat of flat black spay on the outer body would soon sort that out anyway. Good quality does make a difference though. Cheap plugs with poor plating tend to oxidise forming dielectric surfaces which act as diodes thus creating aerials and detectors and thus unwanted interference from any RF source.

The 'Tacky Transparent cables' use physical separation to minimise cross reactive interference, single pair normally. Quite ok in walls physically etc but being what they are they are susceptible to EMF from other wall cabling, 240 VAC, TV Lines, Microwaves, Mobile phones etc because they are not twisted pair push/pull. They can become good aerials unintentionally.
Ok for short runs in cars or front speakers either side of Amp but not recommended for serious stuff.

I have done the experiments with good and bad cables when I first setup the system. The difference is muddy sound,a lack of clarity in the upper frequency levels as the higher frequencies 'drag' behind and give audible blur. Cable distance to my back units is about 10 meters, pair of 50 litre Polk Audio Monitors, fronts are 70 litre matched units.

Maybe I'm super fussy but I do enjoy the extreme instrumental clarity when Roger Waters lets it all go in Dark Side of the Moon. Can just about tell which finger he has on the upper 'E' string if you listen carefully.

richms

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#88536 28-Sep-2007 16:05

They are not ok in walls, as the insulation is not specified as such, and is too soft to ever be able to be specified.

You can use it there, but you will find that any mechanical fastning will slowly work its way thru the insulation, and that it will end up sticking to any wood or paint that it comes in contact with because of the excessive amounts of plasticizers that it takes to get that thickness of it to be able to bend.

Richard rich.ms

xeroid

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#88540 28-Sep-2007 16:26

Don't know about the plasticizers issue, sounds probable though. Not good obviously.

Like I said if you can't do it now, drill the holes and put in some pull throughs for later. Gives you options.

Or go WiFi .....

kevthesparky

79 posts

Master Geek

#88546 28-Sep-2007 17:05

you are not meant to fasten any cables that are hidden behind walls. there are plenty of houses out there with oxf cable installed why produce a cable type if it is very limited in use???

richms

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#88561 28-Sep-2007 18:39

Who said it was fastened behind walls, you need to fasten it in the basement so it is supported, and conventional pinclips are not suitable for the soft single insulated cables.

The only reason they put so much insulation on is so they get the optical effect of the conductor looking a lot bigger then it really is, there are much better cables available that are ok in wall even from the kings of rip-off monster. At the moment no one seems to enforce the requirement that cables used in a house are rated as such, but inevitably the day will come, and stringing up inappropriate cable under ones house and up to the rear speakers may end up meaning it needs removal when it comes time to sell the place.

Richard rich.ms

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xeroid

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#88860 1-Oct-2007 08:31

Blimey, it's not like you're stringing 40,000 volt lines around the place, it's just an audio cable. Accidentally driving a nail through it in 10 years time ain't gonna fry your skull. If you want to consider that dangerous just having them laying on the floor/carpet around the house as per normal has to be the worst sin possible.
Mind you, the way they are regulating things around here nowadays it's a distinct possiblity for Auntie Helen to add another one to the list.