4K @ 60Hz through non HDMI 2.0 receiver

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tatbaird

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Master Geek
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#196821 14-Jun-2016 08:54

Hi,

I have the following setup:

LG 4K TV, HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 capable

Onkyo TX-NR626 receiver, HDMI 1.4 capable

Nvidia Shield TV, HDMI 2.0 capable

The issue is that I have some 60Hz video that I want to play from the Shield, but the receiver can only handle 30Hz. So I want to run the shield directly to the TV and use some kind of audio return back to the receiver. Anybody faced this issue and played around with it? Using a splitter? Optical back to the Onkyo maybe?

Cheers

Well let me just quote the late-great Colonel Sanders, who said "Im too drunk to taste this chicken." -Ricky Bobby

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#1571443 14-Jun-2016 09:31

On my LG 55UG870T, HDMI port 2 has ARC and I use this for my HTPC. From the TV I pass the sound through to my receiver with an optical connection.

Some people don't seem to like ARC but it works fine for me, there's a slight offset that can be compensated for in the TV settings.

tatbaird

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#1571456 14-Jun-2016 09:35

Ok cheers, I guess I'll just play around with it. Do you lose any audio formats through optical?

lurker

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#1571506 14-Jun-2016 10:27

I'm not sure about the newer formats as l only have an old 5.1 receiver but I get DTS passing through just fine.

I imagine it would be ok.

I am looking at getting an HDMI 2.0 graphics card for my HTPC as I discovered that the LG image enhancements are only available when the TV is working at its native resolution (ie 4K).

lurker

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#1571511 14-Jun-2016 10:33

Oh... You know what, I think I just remembered something that will throw a spanner in the works if it applies to your TV model.

On mine, from memory, I believe that only HDMI1 supports 4K at 60hz and only HDMI2 supports ARC.

Might want to check your manual for the details

LennonNZ

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#1571550 14-Jun-2016 11:27

The HDFury Integral will allow you to extract the Audio and sent via SPDIF to the Onkyo. (Use as an Audio extractor instead of a Video Format Changer)

No other hardware as far as I know will do this.

tatbaird

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Master Geek
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#1571573 14-Jun-2016 12:06

Thanks, it looks like both ports on the TV handle 4k at 60. I'm now going from Shield directly to the ARC HDMI and optical back to the receiver for sound. Works great so far, but haven't tried all audio formats as yet. It's still a bit of a bodge up workaround though as I now can't control anything through CEC or access menus on the receiver without replugging anything. I guess I'll still look for a more permanent solution. How much was that HDFury? They are pretty rich on Amazon. $299 US. Could almost upgrade my whole receiver for that.

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LennonNZ

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#1571578 14-Jun-2016 12:09

You are looking at around $350 NZ

lurker

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#1571909 14-Jun-2016 19:46

I regret my earlier posts, I was thinking about the ARC thing at work and thought what I said didn't make sense - ARC is for audio return.

So I don't need that for the HTPC when passing the audio out from the TV through the optical cable.

Dunnersfella

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#1571981 14-Jun-2016 21:38

Time for a boring reply...

If you connect an HDMI source device (computer / Blu-ray / console etc) to a TV, the HDMI source sees the TV as the 'end point'.

This end point will dictate the maximum resolution, frame rate and number of audio channels that the source will send through.

So... if the TV is 1080i, that's the maximum resolution that will be sent.

If the TV is capably of 50Hz native refresh... that's what it can be sent.

If the TV only is capable of stereo (almost all TV's)... that's what it'll be sent.

From there, the TV can only display / send out what it can receive.

Meaning if you run the picture and sound into a TV via HDMI, then the TV will most likely only be able to send out stereo sound via ARC and optical.

Note: There are some exceptions on the market, however there is no definitive list of TV's that can achieve this.

Sure, your amplifier will be able to take a stereo soundtrack and extrapolate the audio into simulated surround sound (pseudo surround typically sends the stereo channels to the rear speakers, but at 30% lower)... but it won't be the real deal.

Also, optical cannot take Dolby True HD / DTS Master HD / DTS:X etc (lossless audio codecs).

I hope this helps.

tatbaird

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Master Geek
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#1572007 14-Jun-2016 22:36

I'm not sure that the source knows or cares what the downstream device is. It's going to play whatever it's told to play and how to play it, audio, video or both. If your "endpoint" can't handle whatever the signal is, you're going to have issues with it. You're right about the lack of those two formats over optical though. In any case sending sound back through optical wasn't a good solution for me, the dialogue was way out of synch and I couldn't compensate accurately enough through any device. I can still get 4k through my receiver albeit @ 30Hz max. I have some 60Hz video that is unwatchable so I'm still going to plug away at finding a solution.

Well let me just quote the late-great Colonel Sanders, who said "Im too drunk to taste this chicken." -Ricky Bobby

kiwijunglist

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#1572041 14-Jun-2016 23:40

I think the majority of the splitters do 4K@30hz not 60hz. I think there are a few that do 4K@4:2:2@60hz.

If 60hz is needed your options are:

Connect shield directly to TV / Buy new AVR / Find a 4k@60hz splitter / Buy HDFury Integral

HTPC / Home automation (home assistant) enthusiast.

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tatbaird

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#1574457 15-Jun-2016 15:23

Yeah, can anyone explain to me how you would integrate a splitter into my setup? Is it input from the media player and 1 output each to AVR and TV? I thought spltters just duplicate the signal for use with 2 monitors/TVs. How does the HDFury differ from this one:

http://www.rapalloav.co.nz/1x2-hdmi-splitter-4kat60hz-hdmi-2-0-hdcp-2-2.html

LennonNZ

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#1574466 15-Jun-2016 15:38

The main difference is the Integral is 2 IN and 2 OUT (you can use it as a switch as well like that one ) and it will convert HDCP 1.4 to HDCP 2.2.

Plus many other features that you won't use until you need them. Things like changing the EDID in case certain HDMI boxes won't talk to each other (You can change the capabilities on the fly).

tangerz

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#1574679 15-Jun-2016 20:32

tatbaird:

Yeah, can anyone explain to me how you would integrate a splitter into my setup? Is it input from the media player and 1 output each to AVR and TV? I thought spltters just duplicate the signal for use with 2 monitors/TVs. How does the HDFury differ from this one:

http://www.rapalloav.co.nz/1x2-hdmi-splitter-4kat60hz-hdmi-2-0-hdcp-2-2.html

In short, I don't think a simple splitter like the Rapallo one above will do what you are looking for. Here's why:

Your source, the Nvidia Shield TV, can output 4K60p/4:4:4/HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2

Your TV can accept 4K60p/4:4:4/HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2

Your AV receiver can only accept/pass/output 4K30p/4:2:0/HDMI 1.4/HDCP 1.4

So, if you connect the Nvidia Shield TV to the splitter, then output to the TV only, that will work at 4K60p/4:4:4/HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2... Great!

...BUT, if you then attach the AV receiver to the other output to get sound, because of the the limits of the AV receiver, you'll only get a maximum 4K30p/4:2:0/HDMI 1.4/HDCP 1.4 being output to the TV and receiver, as the output resolution is limited to the resolution of the device with lowest maximum resolution. That is to say, a splitter can't output 4K60p/4:4:4/HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 to one device and 4K30p/4:2:0/HDMI 1.4/HDCP 1.4 to another device at the same time.

However, the HDFury Integral can do exactly this, taking one 4K60p/4:4:4/HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 input and output 4K60p/4:4:4/HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 on one output and 4K30p/4:2:0/HDMI 1.4/HDCP 1.4 on the other output, which is what you need in your situation. However, the HDFury Integral is currently US$249 which is a fair way toward a new 4K60p/4:4:4/HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 capable receiver.

None of this takes into account what may be achievable with some of the cheap Chinese splitters which may be able to take HDCP out of the equation. Even still, not sure if they could then output to two different resolutions which you would require.

Dunnersfella

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#1574712 15-Jun-2016 21:17

tatbaird: I'm not sure that the source knows or cares what the downstream device is. It's going to play whatever it's told to play and how to play it, audio, video or both.

The source both knows and cares.

Blame EDID.

While many people believe that HDMI is as simple as plug & play, fact is, it makes distribution etc about as tricky as possible.

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