VDSL upload stops internet

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › VDSL upload stops internet

AndrewTarr

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#225807 6-Dec-2017 16:43

Hi all,

In October 2017 I requested VDSL at my new house address. I've had VDSL in the past and although it's no UFB, it's been fine for home use and working from home.

The VDSL was connected and right from the start I had issues. I've worked hard to confirm it is not internal wiring and have got to the point of rationalizing it right down to the basics.

Line from Street ----> VDSL Master Filter ----> Spark HG659B (I've tried multiple modems)

The main problem seems to occur with flaky upload performance. Although I have a Spark speed test of 22 Mbps down and 1 Mbps up, whenever something is uploaded (e.g. to Onedrive) the internet just stops.

I've sent multiple messages to Spark and although we've tried some things, We've had no success. It's just hasn't worked properly from day one.

I like using Spark and use them for both my home and business plans, but I'm getting desperate, especially when Vodafone is advertising FibreX at the doorstep.

Does anyone have any ideas or am I just stuck?

Thanks

Andrew

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#1913952 6-Dec-2017 16:55

What are the VDSL modem line stats? Wondering if you might be better off on ADSL2+

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AndrewTarr

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#1913953 6-Dec-2017 16:56

AndrewTarr

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#1913957 6-Dec-2017 16:59

I think my exchange is only about 700 meters away, which doesn't make sense with these figures.

RunningMan

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#1913985 6-Dec-2017 17:27

With that downstream line attenuation, I suspect that is as good as it gets for you - I'm sure @hio77 will be able to tell a little more though.

If that is about all you can get, then the cause of your issue is simply upstream saturation. In very generic terms, when traffic is flowing in one direction, there is a stream of requests and acknowledgements for data going in the other direction. If the upstream is choked uploading whatever, then the requests/acknowledgements for the downstream data struggle to get through in a timely fashion, and it slows downstream traffic significantly.

Assuming this is the case, then the only real answer is to limit the upload so it is not using all your upstream bandwidth, and leaves some left over. If you can limit this in whatever software you use to upload, then all good, but failing that it may have to be done at router level.

EDIT: This isn't a case of it not working properly, but that you really need more bandwidth for the amount of data you are pushing through.

hio77

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#1914011 6-Dec-2017 17:41

I can't really comment on performance of the HG659b's upload scheduler, sounds like you are choking though as mentioned above.

I'm happy to look at your line, DM me the details in the next 20 mins and i'll get straight back to you.

If there is something that can be done, I'm happy to work with you to improve things, it may very well be, the best your going to get though... :/

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xpd

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#1914029 6-Dec-2017 18:55

AndrewTarr:

The main problem seems to occur with flaky upload performance. Although I have a Spark speed test of 22 Mbps down and 1 Mbps up, whenever something is uploaded (e.g. to Onedrive) the internet just stops.

Im on 50/15 VDSL, and soon as OneDrive starts anything 100mb my net goes stupid even though the OneDrive client claims its only using a fraction of the connection. Anything else uploading is fine (torrents, facebook, youtube etc).

XPD / Gavin

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KiwiSurfer

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#1914037 6-Dec-2017 19:37

Wonder if this could also be due to bufferbloat issues. I switched to the EdgeRouter X and enabled. Smart QOS. It restricts the flow of data to a predetermined rate (e.g 100 down/20 up in my case) to ensure the buffer doesn't fill up. The router handles multiple types of connections (torrents, video calls, downloads, web traffic) with very minimal slowdowns (if any) to time sensitive traffic. Before that the previous router would just struggle with real time traffic if there was a download/torrent going and I would have to ask everyone to stop downloading. Now I just video call and it works flawlessly even when there's heaps of other traffic going on across a busy home network with up to 20 clients attached. My SO who plays PS4 games online has also noticed a significant improvement in latency (both lower as well as more consistent). Well worth the investment into the EdgeRouter IMHO and made me realise how crap the routers the ISP send out are TBH.

Talkiet

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#1914059 6-Dec-2017 19:49

KiwiSurfer:

[snip]and made me realise how crap the routers the ISP send out are TBH.

This is BS. The routers most RSPs supply aren't the top end devices, but they work really really well for virtually everyone. If they were "crap" I assure you, we'd know about it.

There are definitely better routers, I'd agree, but calling a Corolla 'crap' because you just bought a Ferrari isn't helpful and perpetuates a blatant falsehood.

As for the OP, I'll let Hio take first crack - but it does seem that the line is on the edge of being suitable for VDSL. At that sort of distance/speed there's a chance there are errors creeping in as well.

It might be useful to run a continuous ping to something like 219.88.188.18 and seeing what sort of variation and/or packet loss you get when onedrive syncs..

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

hio77

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#1914108 6-Dec-2017 20:32

Testing here, onedrive isn't pegging things out unless i turn off my QOS settings.

Single TCP/IP connection so not exactly heavy, Although terminating very close to home (thus ramps easily)

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#1914112 6-Dec-2017 20:38

AndrewTarr:

I think my exchange is only about 700 meters away, which doesn't make sense with these figures.

Your exchange may be 700m away "as the crow flies", but it is very likely that your actual line length is much longer, taking an indirect route to your house.

Your downstream attenuation of 26.7dB (with a master filter) suggests an actual line length of 1900m - not good for VDSL.

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#1914114 6-Dec-2017 20:47

Talkiet:
KiwiSurfer:

[snip]and made me realise how crap the routers the ISP send out are TBH.

This is BS. The routers most RSPs supply aren't the top end devices, but they work really really well for virtually everyone. If they were "crap" I assure you, we'd know about it.

There are definitely better routers, I'd agree, but calling a Corolla 'crap' because you just bought a Ferrari isn't helpful and perpetuates a blatant falsehood.

As for the OP, I'll let Hio take first crack - but it does seem that the line is on the edge of being suitable for VDSL. At that sort of distance/speed there's a chance there are errors creeping in as well.

It might be useful to run a continuous ping to something like 219.88.188.18 and seeing what sort of variation and/or packet loss you get when onedrive syncs..

Cheers - N

Agree with this @kiwisurfer I suggest you think before you post this BS

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KiwiSurfer

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#1914117 6-Dec-2017 21:01

Talkiet:

KiwiSurfer:

[snip]and made me realise how crap the routers the ISP send out are TBH.

This is BS. The routers most RSPs supply aren't the top end devices, but they work really really well for virtually everyone. If they were "crap" I assure you, we'd know about it.

There are definitely better routers, I'd agree, but calling a Corolla 'crap' because you just bought a Ferrari isn't helpful and perpetuates a blatant falsehood.

That doesn't reflect my experience with RSP supplied routers over a number of years and across several RSPs. I've lost count of the number of times I've replaced RSP supplied routers and observed sustained improvements in reliability and performance. But to your credit I'm impressed with the improvement I've seen in recent years particularly from Spark. Perhaps my lingering doubt from the Telecom days (Mum's D-Link and Technicolour routers from Telecom needed weekly if not daily reboots due to sporadic DNS and/or Wifi failures just to give an example of one site I've observed trouble at) I suppose colors my perspective of RSP supplied routers.

AndrewTarr

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#1914129 6-Dec-2017 21:24

Wow! Thanks everyone for the replies. Just to confirm, OneDrive syncing was just an example. Any significant request or upload seems to cause a stutter, or in larger scenarios a complete halt.

Hio77 - I've sent you a message with my details

I promise to let you all know how it turns out.

Thanks again.

hio77

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#1914471 7-Dec-2017 11:01

Certainly is an edgecase this one.

The bin allocations are particularly light in US0 which would indicate likely crosstalk of power backoff.

address is atleast 900M from the exchange unfortunately, being exchange fed it's kinda the worst pot luck..

I'm digging further into this to see if we can't action anything to improve things :)

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AndrewTarr

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#1918923 13-Dec-2017 10:53

Thanks everyone

A special thanks to hio77 for his assistance.

To sum up - I'm an edge case. It's been determined that there is not much that can be done to improve the link.

I'm off to explore other options...