PSTN/NEAX Switch off

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nztim

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#253172 30-Jul-2019 16:57

Hi All, I am new to these forums so please be gentle :)

My 85 year old aunt is still on a good old fashioned copper landline in a rural area of the Hauraki Plains which and with the NEAX days numbered I am looking at options for her

I understand that it will either be 4G Landline (needs UPS and currently lucky to get 1 bar of 3G at her place ) or Landline over Fibre (estimate date 2022 according to chorus and needs a UPS) or some form of VOIP from the Cabinet/Exchange turned back into copper

My question is, i have been trying to google to find out what the Ringer Equivalence Level output is on any of these devices (ONT / 4G / Voip over Coppeer) as she has an old Large button phone as well as a cordless (which uses about 3 in total, NEAX is about 5)

Any help would be greatly appreciated so I can make an informed decision for her

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

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wellygary

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#2285857 30-Jul-2019 17:04

>some form of VOIP from the Cabinet/Exchange turned back into copper

Pretty sure this option is promised to be seamless to the customer, so would expect it to support existing devices (although I'm not sure about Pulse dial)

nztim

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#2285868 30-Jul-2019 17:28

wellygary:

>some form of VOIP from the Cabinet/Exchange turned back into copper

Pretty sure this option is promised to be seamless to the customer, so would expect it to support existing devices (although I'm not sure about Pulse dial)

Yup expected as much, no pulse dial (ripped that out in the mid late 90s when she couldn't use phone banking LOL) but it still uses 1.6 Ringer EQ (According to the Telepermit Sticker) and along with the cordless use about 3

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hio77

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#2285876 30-Jul-2019 17:44

I'll ask the folk working on this item if they can come to an answer for you, I'm not up on Ringer Equivalents.

The intention is for it to be totally seamless, and has been with all the migrations so far.

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nztim

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#2286174 31-Jul-2019 08:06

hio77:

I'll ask the folk working on this item if they can come to an answer for you, I'm not up on Ringer Equivalents.

The intention is for it to be totally seamless, and has been with all the migrations so far.

I knew there would be someone one here who would be able to find out

HG659 Supports a REN of 4 on its FXS port https://www.connectplay.co.nz/sites/default/files/product-download/Huawei%20HG659%20Datasheet%2002.pdf

Cant find anything on detailed specs the B618

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hio77

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#2286384 31-Jul-2019 12:42

nztim:

I knew there would be someone one here who would be able to find out

HG659 Supports a REN of 4 on its FXS port https://www.connectplay.co.nz/sites/default/files/product-download/Huawei%20HG659%20Datasheet%2002.pdf

Cant find anything on detailed specs the B618

We do not supply voice over the HG659(b).

Our Fibre voice is provided over the ONT.

Our Wireless Voice is over the B618 or B315 depending on which modem you have.

Our Copper Voice is over Copper (POTS). If it's delivered from BBIP, it's still over the physical copper for you. It's only the cabinet onwards point that changes which is basically transparent.

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nztim

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#2287065 1-Aug-2019 12:00

hio77:

nztim:

I knew there would be someone one here who would be able to find out

HG659 Supports a REN of 4 on its FXS port https://www.connectplay.co.nz/sites/default/files/product-download/Huawei%20HG659%20Datasheet%2002.pdf

Cant find anything on detailed specs the B618

We do not supply voice over the HG659(b).

Our Fibre voice is provided over the ONT.

Our Wireless Voice is over the B618 or B315 depending on which modem you have.

Our Copper Voice is over Copper (POTS). If it's delivered from BBIP, it's still over the physical copper for you. It's only the cabinet onwards point that changes which is basically transparent.

Cool, so after the Ringer equivalence for the ONT, B618 or B315 and the BBIP FXS Ports - If you could find out that would be much appriciated

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toejam316

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#2287128 1-Aug-2019 13:29

No hard numbers for you, just anecdote - in my experience, even the chinsiest cheapo units (like the routers my previous employer supplied) have enough oomph to handle a few ringers and some internal wiring, and I've seen that the Huawei HGs have enough oomph to send ringing town back to an exchange as well as ring a couple of landline phones in the house - my rule of thumb (and the one that I vaguely remember being taught as an apprentice) is 5 RE is the maximum Chorus supports, and if you have more that that, I don't believe there's much that they would do for you, but I'm sure that there's equipment to deal with that.

I wouldn't bat an eyelid, anyway, as the NEAX shutdown is happening, but the removal of the NEAXs should be seamless to end users. Hopefully by the time you need to worry about Phone over Fibre or Cellular, there'll be more UPS units on the market. With that said, I'm actually surprised that no one has started marketing those yet more aggressively. I'm a fan of how it was handled by NBNCo, one of the few things of theirs I am a fan of, with the UPS unit being made part of the default install, and then the user can service it by replacing the battery as required. Easy if you care, easy if you don't.

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

nztim

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#2287280 1-Aug-2019 16:29

toejam316:

I wouldn't bat an eyelid, anyway, as the NEAX shutdown is happening, but the removal of the NEAXs should be seamless to end users.

Yup I believe now that will be the case, unlike our clients still on ISDN lines, where I am currently changing out ISDN PABX's to SIP at a rate of 1-2 per week!

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BarTender

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#2287734 2-Aug-2019 14:58

When I was testing the Chorus ATAs in the 200 series ONTs they said a REL of 1.4.

Similar and IMHO even worse situation with the B315's. Not sure of what the B618's have as it was just around the time I left but that was the reason why DECT phones was used rather than integrated wiring when cutting people over from copper to B315's. When using integrated wiring it nailed the B315 due to the draw of the copper around the house. Too many issues with the B315 so it was quickly dropped.

My initial view is get a new phone. Quick google found this which to me looks perfect and I doubt would have a REL over 1:

http://www.reidtechnology.co.nz/shop/Hearing+%26+Healthcare/Oricom+Amplified+Telephones+%26+Answering+Machines/Oricom+Care+80+Amplified+Big+Button+Telephone.html

But YMMV and this was a 2 second google for "pstn phone for seniors in NZ".

When testing the B315 I do seem to remember plugging up a number of Uniden DECT base stations to see when it stopped working and I think it was after 3 or 4 but it was a while ago and don't trust anything I say :). That's why the approach was a single base station and then as many DECT phones as you wanted.

I still think you're worrying about nothing, Spark aren't going to shutdown the NEAXs until there is a viable solution in place. They may come out and say shutting down on x date, then Grey Power and various other interested parties will scream and shout then Spark will not want the ongoing bad press and capitulate.

If I were a betting person most likely the next change to your Aunts phone connection would be is when UFB becomes available in 2022.

and

nztim

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#2287759 2-Aug-2019 15:55

BarTender:

When I was testing the Chorus ATAs in the 200 series ONTs they said a REL of 1.4.

Similar and IMHO even worse situation with the B315's. Not sure of what the B618's have as it was just around the time I left but that was the reason why DECT phones was used rather than integrated wiring when cutting people over from copper to B315's. When using integrated wiring it nailed the B315 due to the draw of the copper around the house. Too many issues with the B315 so it was quickly dropped.

Thanks this is most helpful that tells me the RE out of the ONT 200 (Maybe the 300 is better) , and B315, I might see if I can find someone with a B618 and load it up with a few phones and see what happens, but guessing it will be about 2

What frustrates me most about this is the information is not made available either by Huawei or Chorus and is basic specifications of a product

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#2287870 2-Aug-2019 21:24

@nztim

Sorry, I missed this thread when it was posted.

Our Technical User Guide used to be public, but it looks to have gone west when the Service Provider side of our site was migrated to a new format. I'll chase that up and make sure it gets reinstated

I'll talk to our actual voice guy (I only know enough to be dangerous for voice :) ), as I can see 2 different numbers in some documentation.
1) This is from the docs for the Type 100 and 200 ONTs

"The ringing output is rated at three ringer equivalents (REN) maximum per POTS line. (A REN is defined as a 1µF + 8 kOhm load across the ringing source.)"

2) The latest version developed when we introduced the Type 300 ONT says:

"Ringing output is rated at a maximum of five ringer equivalents (REN) per port (A REN is defined as a 1µF + 8 kOhm load across the ringing source)."

But... The latest Doc isn't Type 300 specific and doesn't differentiate the ONT types.

Either way, You're looking at a minimum of 3, with a possibility of up to 5. I'll clarify next week.

old3eyes

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#2288927 3-Aug-2019 11:06

BMarquis:

@nztim

Sorry, I missed this thread when it was posted.

Our Technical User Guide used to be public, but it looks to have gone west when the Service Provider side of our site was migrated to a new format. I'll chase that up and make sure it gets reinstated

I'll talk to our actual voice guy (I only know enough to be dangerous for voice :) ), as I can see 2 different numbers in some documentation.
1) This is from the docs for the Type 100 and 200 ONTs

"The ringing output is rated at three ringer equivalents (REN) maximum per POTS line. (A REN is defined as a 1µF + 8 kOhm load across the ringing source.)"

2) The latest version developed when we introduced the Type 300 ONT says:

"Ringing output is rated at a maximum of five ringer equivalents (REN) per port (A REN is defined as a 1µF + 8 kOhm load across the ringing source)."

But... The latest Doc isn't Type 300 specific and doesn't differentiate the ONT types.

Either way, You're looking at a minimum of 3, with a possibility of up to 5. I'll clarify next week.

With REN 3 to 5 you should be fine. My Uniden cordless basestations are REN 0.5 so I should be able to put plenty of them on the circuit. (I actually only have two basestations running)

Regards,

Old3eyes

nztim

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#2289238 3-Aug-2019 16:22

BMarquis:

Either way, You're looking at a minimum of 3, with a possibility of up to 5. I'll clarify next week.

This is great, I can just tie into house wiring if we go POTS over Fibre and I don't have to replace any equipment, Still keen to find out what the BBIP REN value is

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hio77

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#2289239 3-Aug-2019 16:24

nztim:
BMarquis:

Either way, You're looking at a minimum of 3, with a possibility of up to 5. I'll clarify next week.

This is great, I can just tie into house wiring if we go POTS over Fibre and I don't have to replace any equipment, Still keen to find out what the BBIP REN value is

Remember to disconnect the street if you do that.

If a provider requests integrated wiring chorus will do this for you as part of the install.

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BMarquis

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#2289289 3-Aug-2019 18:51

nztim:

This is great, I can just tie into house wiring if we go POTS over Fibre and I don't have to replace any equipment, Still keen to find out what the BBIP REN value is

@nztim BBIP is 5 with the same definition, 1µF + 8 kOhm load across the ringing source.

As hio77 said - make sure you *properly* disconnect the wiring at the ETP (or somewhere else suitable.)