High Latency

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stenknz

92 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 4

Topic # 31093 4-Mar-2009 12:43

I know ISPs are not obliged to operate with any minimum latency guarantees but I would like to know if there is a way to get better ping times?

I do quite a lot of online multi-player gaming (First Person Shooters) and I believe I'm not as bad as my results would make me out to be lol :)

Anyway what can I do to better my PING times or is it basically how my ISP is routing my connections?

Telecom are for the most part pretty good and I don't have to many issues when it comes to my connection.

I also know living here in NZ is a problem for online games (or so I am lead to believe)

Anyway if there is someone out there that can give me some insight into what I should be looking out for then please do not hesitate to reply to this thread!

My Setup

ADSL Modem DLink 502T (I think) - WRT54g Wireless Router - X3 Wired connections PC, PS3 and 360 - x3 wireless devices (Wireless G only) 2x note(net)books), PS3

The PS3 that I play on is wireless but no issues I can stream movies etc without issues. Setup is NAT2.

There is pretty much only 2 devices connected to my network at anyone time so the issue should not be related to any traffic collisions that I am aware of but if you can tell me how I can check if this is happening then please do tell!

My signal strength is Excellent from every device 100% so I get 54Mbp right?

Anyway if you are still reading this then WOW! You might as well reply with a sensible answer\tip LOL ;)

Cheers,

xpd

Chief Trash Bandit
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Reply # 199232 4-Mar-2009 15:29

Try plugging in the PS3 via cable and see if any difference - some users do complain about gaming over Wifi is a tad "laggy" compared to cable.

XPD / Gavin / DemiseNZ

For Free Games, Geekiness and Reviews, visit :

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Ragnor

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Reply # 199259 4-Mar-2009 18:15

Do some tracert's www.telecom.co.nz and to some of the servers you play on.

How to do a tracert in windows
http://kb.iu.edu/data/aihy.html

BazNZ

258 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 6

Reply # 199333 5-Mar-2009 07:02

I too get really bad latency gaming particularly to the USA but generally any International Servers. It's the worst its ever been for me while gaming on the internet(10 Years). Could it have something to do with the new ADSL2 cabinet recently installed I'm running on now? Most of the time is just about impossible to play online due to bad latency. It's like I'm in slow motion and eveyone else has speed up. Very hard to game like this. Any answers? I'd like a tech to come out and check my house lines to the cabinet because something has gone haywire recently. How much does a tech cost?

Ilmarin

94 posts

Master Geek

Reply # 199375 5-Mar-2009 10:50

You guys should qualify bad/high latency with some tracert and ping results. If you're on Telecom's Pro plan, then you should have interleaving (an error mitigation strategy for DSL that can improve sync rate slightly at the cost of a significant amount of latency, but is only necessary for people with poor quality connections) turned off, but if you're on one of the other plans then you probably don't (and Telecom won't turn it off for you unless you upgrade to Pro). This is pretty much extortion on Telecom's part, especially since there are increasingly more people who would benefit from low latency (e.g. for VoIP apps) and aren't necessarily heavy users suited to the Pro plan... not to mention the fact that switching interleaving off costs them nothing.

Since interleaving adds some 30 - 50 ms of latency, that would be the first thing for you to check, but even sans interleaving, if you're getting significantly more than 10 ms ping to telecom.co.nz, then something is wrong at your end or at the DSLAM. Beyond national hops, if you still think your latency is unusually high to your regular servers, then there could be bad routing involved... and you're probably out of luck since most ISPs don't really care about latency issues arising from bad routing (of course if the route to youtube.com was going through China, they would care because far more people would be complaining about it), unless you happen to get hold of a sympathetic tech.

stenknz

92 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 4

Reply # 199380 5-Mar-2009 11:02

Ilmarin: You guys should qualify bad/high latency with some tracert and ping results. If you're on Telecom's Pro plan, then you should have interleaving (an error mitigation strategy for DSL that can improve sync rate slightly at the cost of a significant amount of latency, but is only necessary for people with poor quality connections) turned off, but if you're on one of the other plans then you probably don't (and Telecom won't turn it off for you unless you upgrade to Pro). This is pretty much extortion on Telecom's part, especially since there are increasingly more people who would benefit from low latency (e.g. for VoIP apps) and aren't necessarily heavy users suited to the Pro plan... not to mention the fact that switching interleaving off costs them nothing.

Since interleaving adds some 30 - 50 ms of latency, that would be the first thing for you to check, but even sans interleaving, if you're getting significantly more than 10 ms ping to telecom.co.nz, then something is wrong at your end or at the DSLAM. Beyond national hops, if you still think your latency is unusually high to your regular servers, then there could be bad routing involved... and you're probably out of luck since most ISPs don't really care about latency issues arising from bad routing (of course if the route to youtube.com was going through China, they would care because far more people would be complaining about it), unless you happen to get hold of a sympathetic tech.

I'm on the Pro Plan with Telecom so I will look into this. Thanks for you reply.

I will add my tracert results here later tonight when I get home.

If interleaving is the issue can I call telecom and ask them to turn it off? I don't have a poor connection as far as I know but it would be good to get some more information.

Who should you ask for when you call the Helpdesk as I believe the regular Helpdesk will be no help at all in regards to this request.

Thanks for all the information everyone!

Regards,

Sten

BazNZ

258 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 6

Reply # 199445 5-Mar-2009 17:48

Here is my tracert to www.telecom.co.nz. Don't think this looks good?

Tracing route to www.telecom.co.nz [146.171.18.242]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 2 ms <1 ms <1 ms RTA1335.home [192.168.1.1]
2 31 ms 29 ms 30 ms 125-237-32-1.jetstream.xtra.co.nz [125.237.32.1]

3 * * * Request timed out.
4 33 ms 30 ms 30 ms x6-0-0-v20.akcr10.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.
238.49]
5 31 ms 29 ms 30 ms g0-1-0.tkcr3.global-gateway.net.nz [210.55.202.5
0]
6 31 ms 39 ms 31 ms tcnz-is-dom2.tkcr3.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50
.245.206]
7 34 ms 34 ms 34 ms 146.171.18.210
8 31 ms 36 ms 33 ms www.telecom.co.nz [146.171.18.242]

Trace complete.

BazNZ

258 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 6

Reply # 199446 5-Mar-2009 17:55

Here is the Gaming Server in the U.S.A I play on...same problem?
Tracing route to war-clouds.com [67.106.81.125]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms RTA1335.home [192.168.1.1]
2    31 ms    30 ms    33 ms 125-237-32-1.jetstream.xtra.co.nz [125.237.32.1]

3     *        *        *     Request timed out.
4    31 ms    34 ms    34 ms xe6-0-0-10.akbr5.global-gateway.net.nz [202.37.2
44.221]
5    34 ms    33 ms    30 ms xe0-0-0-2.akbr4.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.23
2.77]
6    31 ms    34 ms    35 ms g1-3-5.tkbr9.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.8
2]
7   156 ms   161 ms   158 ms so0-3-1.labr5.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.
254]
8   188 ms   189 ms   189 ms so6-0-2.sjbr2.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.
93]
9   192 ms   190 ms   199 ms so1-0-0.pabr4.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.
102]
10   188 ms   189 ms   189 ms 206.111.12.141.ptr.us.xo.net [206.111.12.141]
11   189 ms   188 ms   190 ms te-3-1-0.rar3.sanjose-ca.us.xo.net [65.106.1.58]

12   191 ms   198 ms   190 ms ge7-0-0d0.rar1.sanjose-ca.us.xo.net [65.106.1.57
]
13   252 ms   238 ms   234 ms p6-0-0.RAR1.Denver-CO.us.xo.net [65.106.0.22]
14   207 ms   208 ms   214 ms p0-0-0d0.rar2.denver-co.us.xo.net [65.106.1.74]

15   225 ms   224 ms   229 ms p1-0-0.rar1.chicago-il.us.xo.net [65.106.0.26]
16   256 ms   259 ms   260 ms 71.5.171.34.ptr.us.xo.net [71.5.171.34]
17   227 ms   228 ms     *     ws1.wbs.net [207.88.172.2]
18   227 ms   229 ms   230 ms 66.237.108.130.ptr.us.xo.net [66.237.108.130]
19   227 ms   229 ms   229 ms war-clouds.com [67.106.81.125]

Trace complete.

Ilmarin

94 posts

Master Geek

Reply # 199456 5-Mar-2009 18:43

The only problem you have there, BazNZ, is that you most probably have interleaving turned on, which in your case probably adds about 20-25 ms of latency. Otherwise, that's normal latency to a central US server. I would assume that you're not on Telecom's Pro plan, since I'd imagine they turn off interleaving by default... therefore if you want to cut that 20-25 ms, you'd probably need to change plans or ISPs. You might also want to look for a US west coast server to play on if possible.

stenknz

92 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 4

Reply # 199457 5-Mar-2009 18:47

Tracing route to telecom.co.nz [146.171.18.242]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

4 * * * Request timed out.
5 9 ms 9 ms 19 ms x6-0-0-v20.akcr10.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.
238.49]
6 15 ms 8 ms 17 ms g0-1-0.tkcr3.global-gateway.net.nz [210.55.202.5
0]
7 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms tcnz-is-dom2.tkcr3.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50
.245.206]
8 33 ms 14 ms 9 ms 146.171.18.210
9 10 ms 16 ms 10 ms 146.171.18.242

Trace complete.

I was expecting it to be worse then it is!

But then I try Google

D:\>tracert google.co.nz

Tracing route to google.co.nz [64.233.161.104]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

4     *        *        *     Request timed out.
5     8 ms     7 ms     7 ms xe6-0-0-10.akbr5.global-gateway.net.nz [202.37.2
44.221]
6     8 ms     8 ms     8 ms xe0-0-0-2.akbr4.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.23
2.77]
7     8 ms     8 ms     7 ms so1-1-1.tkbr9.global-gateway.net.nz [203.96.120.
194]
8   134 ms     *      211 ms so1-2-0.labr5.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.
14]
9   182 ms   135 ms   137 ms so-0-0-0.lebr6.global-gateway.net.nz [203.96.120
.102]
10   134 ms   138 ms   134 ms google-pni-3.lebr6.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50
.232.114]
11   135 ms   135 ms   135 ms 216.239.46.180
12   220 ms   221 ms   220 ms 216.239.43.125
13   203 ms   206 ms   203 ms 66.249.95.148
14   204 ms   203 ms   204 ms 64.233.175.219
15   240 ms   241 ms   206 ms 216.239.49.214
16   235 ms   204 ms   205 ms od-in-f104.google.com [64.233.161.104]

Trace complete.

Hmmm

Ilmarin

94 posts

Master Geek

Reply # 199470 5-Mar-2009 20:13

Looks pretty normal to me, so there's nothing systemically wrong with your connection in terms of latency. You may or may not have bad routing to the servers that you game on (generally routing is fairly adequate to US servers), but you'd have to do a tracert to those servers to find out (and getting the server IPs could be tricky if you game on your PS3). I don't know much about PSN or how games/servers are located, but I presume there's a means of determining how good your connection to a given server is (usually an indicator graphic). In my experience with first person action games, though it can vary depending on the game, latency starts to have a noticeable effect once you get over 160 ms or so. I tend to stick to Australian, NZ and US west coast servers for that reason. I suppose the typical graphical analogue of that is that if your latency indicator is any worse than green (usually yellow to red follows green), you can expect playability and/or efficacy to be impacted.