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lowededwookie

51 posts

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#97926 22-Feb-2012 08:49
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We have a customer who is having a massive e-mail problem. It's affecting her business because the e-mails are taking forever to show up.

She can send an e-mail and within 2 minutes it will be in my inbox and I can reply to her. Then comes the big problem. It takes almost 24 hours in some cases for the e-mails to come through to her account. As you can image this is unacceptable.

The problem is I can't work out where the problem lies. It doesn't seem to be her machine because when she logs into webmail the e-mail isn't on the server. It isn't my machine because others send her stuff and it doesn't come through until many hours later as well.

So, what could be the problem? Is it a Telecom thing or a Yahoo thing? Telecom is saying they can't find any issue which is pretty much Telecom's mantra but they offer no ideas as to where the problem could be.

Has anyone had this issue? If so what did you do to fix the issue?

Thanks folks 

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CYaBro
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  #584953 22-Feb-2012 09:05
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Don't use your ISPs email address and mail server for business emails.
Setup a domain name, looks more professional for a business, and then setup a free Google Aps account which gives you up to 10 email accounts.
If they already have a domain name move the hosting to someone else so you take Xtra/Yahoo out of the equation.
This will cost them less as well.




Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.




plambrechtsen
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  #585004 22-Feb-2012 10:08
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I know Yahoo have employed a lot of extra spam protection in the last 6-12 months.

Things that I have known to affect delivery are
- No SPF[1] or DKIM[2] on the senders mail domain.  If you're sending from your own domain rather than from gmail or other free internet based main services most often you havn't bothered to setup a SPF record against your domain to ensure the source sending system is allowed to send from that domain.

- Time on the source system not being set correctly and has drifted into the future and Yahoo puts those messages into a spam / delay folder to ensure it's not spam, and it does additional checks to make sure that it's not spam.

[1]SPF - http://www.openspf.net/SPF_Record_Syntax or http://www.activecampaign.com/spf/
[2]DKIM http://www.simpledns.com/kb.aspx?kbid=1092

I've sent an email from my own personal .co.nz domain which is hosted with Google Apps which does have a SPF record and the e-mail turned up in my Yahoo Xtra mailbox in less than 3 seconds.

SPF is the main clincher I have found with spam protection, plus making sure the time is correct on the sending system too (since spammers sometimes send random timestamps in the mail payload).

If you still have problems after sorting out the SPF records on the source systems PM me and I will see if I can help.

trig42
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  #585009 22-Feb-2012 10:17
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+1

Does she get emails from other domains (eg another xtra user)?



tdgeek
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  #585019 22-Feb-2012 10:23
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Be useful to translate the email header. Send 2 test emails, then get 2 emails from another domain address sent to that user then get 2 test emails from an ISP address sent to that user.

Translate the header from bottom up after converting server timestamps to UT (old GMT) to lessen confusion.

akia
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  #585222 22-Feb-2012 16:15
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@lowededwookie,

The team have asked if you could PM me her phone number and from there the guys will investigate into this asap.

Apologise for issue but if you flick me some details I can get the guys onto it.

Regards,
Amber Craig

mattwnz
20150 posts

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  #585250 22-Feb-2012 16:52
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plambrechtsen: I know Yahoo have employed a lot of extra spam protection in the last 6-12 months.

Things that I have known to affect delivery are
- No SPF[1] or DKIM[2] on the senders mail domain.? If you're sending from your own domain rather than from gmail or other free internet based main services most often you havn't bothered to setup a SPF record against your domain to ensure the source sending system is allowed to send from that domain.

- Time on the source system not being set correctly and has drifted into the future and Yahoo puts those messages into a spam / delay folder to ensure it's not spam, and it does additional checks to make sure that it's not spam.

[1]SPF - http://www.openspf.net/SPF_Record_Syntax or http://www.activecampaign.com/spf/
[2]DKIM http://www.simpledns.com/kb.aspx?kbid=1092

I've sent an email from my own personal .co.nz domain which is hosted with Google Apps which does have a SPF record and the e-mail turned up in my Yahoo Xtra mailbox in less than 3 seconds.

SPF is the main clincher I have found with spam protection, plus making sure the time is correct on the sending system too (since spammers sometimes send random timestamps in the mail payload).

If you still have problems after sorting out the SPF records on the source systems PM me and I will see if I can help.


The majority of domains don't have SPF setup. It can be a pain to setup and modify, and spam software should not block domain email just for that reason.

Zeon
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  #585266 22-Feb-2012 17:17
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You really shouldn't be using Xtra (outsourced to Yahoo now) for business email. Get in touch with a local company who specializes in this type of thing. As always mentioned in these threads:

webslice.co.nz
web-2u.co.nz
sitehost.co.nz




Speedtest 2019-10-14


 
 
 

Free kids accounts - trade shares and funds (NZ, US) with Sharesies (affiliate link).
mattwnz
20150 posts

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  #585279 22-Feb-2012 17:32
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Zeon: You really shouldn't be using Xtra (outsourced?to Yahoo now) for business email.


For business use, I would suggest a host that doesn't combine email and hosting space in the same quota or server. Rather a host that has separate servers for email, and probably doesn't have quotas on email storage. I have seen too many businesses use up their diskspace quota, as they are using shared web hosting, and then all their emails bounce. It can also be more reliable.

plambrechtsen
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  #585292 22-Feb-2012 18:02
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mattwnz: The majority of domains don't have SPF setup. It can be a pain to setup and modify, and spam software should not block domain email just for that reason.


Not that I know 100% if this is the reason, and Yahoo isn't blocking the mail.  It's just delaying it.

And I was just pointing out that my own personal domain delivered emails from a Google Apps hosted domain to an xtra.co.nz address in less than 3 seconds.

I also disagree that a SPF record is a pain to setup & modify.  Actrix is my domain registrar for my .co.nz as I have had it since 97 and using Google Apps for the mailbox.  When I moved over to Google Apps I just had to do this when I moved over.  Took all of 5-10 mins and only had to do it once in their web portal as a TXT record.  Well worth doing to get my email delivered in a timely manor, and prevent spammers from sending spam on behalf of my domain.

mattwnz
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  #585295 22-Feb-2012 18:09
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plambrechtsen:
mattwnz: The majority of domains don't have SPF setup. It can be a pain to setup and modify, and spam software should not block domain email just for that reason.


Not that I know 100% if this is the reason, and Yahoo isn't blocking the mail.? It's just delaying it.

And I was just pointing out that my own personal domain delivered emails from a Google Apps hosted domain to an xtra.co.nz address in less than 3 seconds.

I also disagree that a SPF record is a pain to setup & modify.? Actrix is my domain registrar for my .co.nz as I have had it since 97 and using Google Apps for the mailbox.? When I moved over to Google Apps I just had to do this when I moved over.? Took all of 5-10 mins and only had to do it once in their web portal as a TXT record.? Well worth doing to get my email delivered in a timely manor, and prevent spammers from sending spam on behalf of my domain.


It depends on your email provider, and how much access you have to your domain records. GOogle is easy, but other providers may not be as easy, and can create problems if they change the IPs without telling you. Some domain providers don't provide easy access to modify those records either.

plambrechtsen
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  #585317 22-Feb-2012 19:19
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mattwnz: It depends on your email provider, and how much access you have to your domain records. GOogle is easy, but other providers may not be as easy, and can create problems if they change the IPs without telling you. Some domain providers don't provide easy access to modify those records either.


As a person who wants to have a company sending e-mail you should do the upmost to reduce spam.  All ISPs have a constant battle with spam and SPF & DKIM are two of the tools in use.  When having your domain with a particular company a consideration should really be how easy it is to setup / modify.  If it can't be done online then an e-mail to dns@isp normally has it sorted out in a few days.

A bit of effort in having your SPF record setup once correctly or perhaps needing to change it whenever the ISP makes sigificant changes to their SMTP server IP address ranges which would be very infrequent I would suspect with most ISPs or hasseling them to get a _spf.domain generic DNS entry that you use as part of an include statement in your SPF record or just having your own server sending the messages directly to the internet and having your ISP open up port 25 outbound and then your IP owns the SPF record.

Is that worth it for having your emails delivered in a timely manor isn't it?

nate
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  #585594 23-Feb-2012 10:42
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plambrechtsen: Not that I know 100% if this is the reason, and Yahoo isn't blocking the mail.  It's just delaying it.


See this all the time.

When a client of ours pumps a large volume of email through out MTA, yahoo will delay delivery by a day or so.  It seems that when they see a lot of emails coming from one IP address (even with all the SPF records setup correctly) they start slowing down delivery.

lowededwookie

51 posts

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  #586107 24-Feb-2012 09:25
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Sorry I haven't replied to this post for a while but it's been pretty busy here lately so I've only just had a chance to check it out.

I can't change what the customer is doing because we don't have that power. I can suggest options but ultimately the two posts about not using Xtra e-mail are unhelpful.

I was thinking it might be spam protection causing the issue. I guess if they are getting e-mails from a number of sources due to business requirements then this could cause issues on the servers.

I've checked the customer's POP and SMTP settings and they are pointing to pop3.xtra.co.nz and smtp.xtra.co.nz. Could these be the problem? Are they supposed to be pointing to Yahoo servers instead? If so what are they because I can't really seem to find the answers.

Amber Craig. Thanks for the offer. I will contact the customer to see if she is willing for that to happen.

akia
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  #586111 24-Feb-2012 09:31
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Nate - if you have ome details as well that you could flick me I'll get the team to look at it

plambrechtsen
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  #586120 24-Feb-2012 09:41
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lowededwookie: Sorry I haven't replied to this post for a while but it's been pretty busy here lately so I've only just had a chance to check it out.

I can't change what the customer is doing because we don't have that power. I can suggest options but ultimately the two posts about not using Xtra e-mail are unhelpful.

I was thinking it might be spam protection causing the issue. I guess if they are getting e-mails from a number of sources due to business requirements then this could cause issues on the servers.

I've checked the customer's POP and SMTP settings and they are pointing to pop3.xtra.co.nz and smtp.xtra.co.nz. Could these be the problem? Are they supposed to be pointing to Yahoo servers instead? If so what are they because I can't really seem to find the answers.

Amber Craig. Thanks for the offer. I will contact the customer to see if she is willing for that to happen.


For the end-users picking up and sending their @xtra.co.nz e-mails the setting can be found here: http://telecom.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1232  So they are pointing to the right servers, or perhaps should be using "send.xtra.co.nz" as the outbound SMTP server rather than smtp.xtra.co.nz from the sounds of it.

The issue sounds more like where the e-mails are coming from (I assume the sending company is not a Telecom customer and not using the send.xtra.co.nz smtp server?)

Feel free to PM either Amber or Me about this and I am sure either of us can escalate to the relevant party.

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