[WXC/VFX] TrueNet needs more WorldxChange volunteers

Forums › Vodafone New Zealand › [WXC/VFX] TrueNet needs more WorldxChange volunteers

JohnButt

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Topic # 100014 1-Apr-2012 15:08

We are increasing testing three-fold and need more WorldxChange customer volunteers. Help us to improve New Zealand broadband performance by volunteering to host one of our probes.

The probe is a bridged router with an 802.11n wifi on board that we encourage you to enable through our website.

Volunteers are needed everywhere for WorldxChange, I'll update here when that changes.

To discover more about being a volunteer, click here https://www.truenet.co.nz/get-involved-become-volunteer-tester
Yes we also test VoIP quality performance.

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Reply # 603324 1-Apr-2012 15:18

Do tell John, would you please explain your VoIP testing methodology, would really like to hear how you test and what your references are based against

Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well

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JohnButt

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Reply # 603325 1-Apr-2012 15:25

At present we are simply testing for Mean Opinion Score by ISP. MOS can be approximated from measures of jitter, packetloss and latency.

We are not yet testing VoIP quality by VoIP supplier, but we are working on it. Do you have any recommendations? We would be pleased to hear them.

gchiu

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Reply # 603354 1-Apr-2012 16:38

I am setting up a new WXC connection in Napier. What hardware do I need? Just an ADSL2 modem? I would then connect your probe to that, and then my CISCO switch to the probe?

maverick

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Reply # 603356 1-Apr-2012 16:40

Thanks for the response John, Yes I probably do but I would have some concerns here, using MOS or RFactor is fine with Latency, Jitter and packet loss being fundamental to the makeup of that measurement, my question around the methodology of the testing as this is where I will have some concerns and this is why.

So I would like to know how and where the MOS will be measured , will it be
A: customer site only
B: Customer Site and Truenet location
C: What does the MOS test consist off, Length of test, Codec , Packetisation etc

My major concern here is that you will not actually be testing a providers voice network quality at all and if you are looking to provide national stats around it I believe these will not be accurate and could possibly be incredibly misleading if you intend providing these to the ComCom.

I will assume at this stage you are testing to your own media sink location, this can not and will not be a true reflection of a providers Voice network as all you will be testing is an RTP media test over the internet component of the circuit to the hosted termination network which for most VoIP providers may not even be hosted on their network so how could this be a valid test ?,

Push a RTP media stream outside the VoiP providers voice network you will then increase the MOS factors listed above (Latency, Jitter etc) as there will be absolutely no QOS measures in place for your media sink which is basically be transited too by ISP peering links, this has absolutely no reflection on Voice providers VoIP network , your tests can not talk directly to a Voice providers Softswitch or SBC, traffic to and from these network components of a providers voice network is the only true indication of the quality of VoIP as in some case the provider will have QOS etc purely for their network IP's supporting VoIP, your termination probe will not,

Really I see this being a big issue and I would have major concerns if this was being used as a reference for which the ComCom would base VoIP quality.

Happy to discuss at any time John but until I have more details I would be objecting strongly to this.

This should be be old hat for you from your days as being the Callplus Ops Manager shouldn't it

Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

JohnButt

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Reply # 603371 1-Apr-2012 16:56

gchiu: I am setting up a new WXC connection in Napier. What hardware do I need? Just an ADSL2 modem? I would then connect your probe to that, and then my CISCO switch to the probe?

Yes a simple modem will be fine, so long as it provides DHCP, the probe is a bridged router, so will provide you with 4 ports and wifi.

Your switch connected to the probe will also be fine - it would ask the modem/router for its IP address

JohnButt

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Reply # 603373 1-Apr-2012 17:02

maverick: Thanks for the response John, Yes I probably do but I would have some concerns here, using MOS or RFactor is fine with Latency, Jitter and packet loss being fundamental to the makeup of that measurement, my question around the methodology of the testing as this is where I will have some concerns and this is why.

......

Really I see this being a big issue and I would have major concerns if this was being used as a reference for which the ConCom would base VoIP quality.

Happy to discuss at any time John but until I have more details I would be objecting strongly to this.

This should be be old hat for you from your days as being the Callplus Ops Manager shouldn't it

Hey that's great input, I'll discuss with my CTO and would love to come back to you for more ideas.

We are yet to provide MOS as an option to the Comcom, although they have bought some components. Before providing results it would be good to have VoIP suppliers agree we are doing the tests properly. Note the MOS results we have seen so far paint the industry in great light :-)

hamistheman

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Reply # 603397 1-Apr-2012 18:04

I've applied ..... how long does it take to find out if your successful or not ?

- On the website there does seem to be anything that says 'application in progress' or anything like that .....

Cheers,
H

JohnButt

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Reply # 603400 1-Apr-2012 18:16

hamistheman: I've applied ..... how long does it take to find out if your successful or not ?

- On the website there does seem to be anything that says 'application in progress' or anything like that .....

Cheers,
H

You are successful, although we need to verify where you live :-)

letter will be on the way tomorrow

Lizard1977

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Reply # 603625 2-Apr-2012 10:24

I'm interested in volunteering. Just to clarify though:

You send out a "probe", which looks to be a router with wifi. I would connect this to my existing setup, and it interfaces to record stats about broadband performance. My existing setup is a Linksys WAG54GPv2 (I think). Presumably, I could de-activate the router function of my device (including the wireless function) and connect your probe and use that as the router/wireless function in bridge mode. Have I understood this correctly?

My modem/router includes an adaptor so I can plug in my regular cordless phone, for use with VFX. Will I still be able to do this, if I have connected your probe and am using it as a router/wireless router?

Looking at your page, it sounds like the tests involve data usage, and you ask for people to volunteer 1-5GB for these tests. Have I got this right?

Zeon

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Reply # 603632 2-Apr-2012 10:30

Haha based on all these threads I think Truenet need more volunteers fullstop lol.

JohnButt

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Reply # 603713 2-Apr-2012 12:07

Lizard1977: I'm interested in volunteering. Just to clarify though:

You send out a "probe", which looks to be a router with wifi. I would connect this to my existing setup, and it interfaces to record stats about broadband performance. My existing setup is a Linksys WAG54GPv2 (I think). Presumably, I could de-activate the router function of my device (including the wireless function) and connect your probe and use that as the router/wireless function in bridge mode. Have I understood this correctly?

My modem/router includes an adaptor so I can plug in my regular cordless phone, for use with VFX. Will I still be able to do this, if I have connected your probe and am using it as a router/wireless router?

Looking at your page, it sounds like the tests involve data usage, and you ask for people to volunteer 1-5GB for these tests. Have I got this right?

Our router is set up in bridge mode, so does not issue DHCP, but uses DHCP on your network so we do not interfere with your network. We enable the Wifi to be turned on through our website, ie SSID name, password and channel control only.

Yes you can de-activate your wireless mode, but need to leave DHCP running

Your adaptor if independent can be plugged into our probe (4 ports) it will pick up DHCP through it. If you have the adaptor within your modem/router, there is technically interference, but that is my setup and I have never encountered an impact - mostly because the tests are very short in time.

Yes we ask for a selection of data usage, ie 1GB up to 5GB, depending on your choice. Our standard tests use a little under 0.5GB, but we do some extra tests for interest and cross-checking of results with those probes where more capacity is offered. eg the Bank test you may have seen on our website.

Simply put, our probe takes one of your ports, turns that into 4 ports, still on your DHCP, and tests only when no traffic is detected. The Wifi on our probe is also monitored for the presence of traffic before and during tests.

puck

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Reply # 603730 2-Apr-2012 12:21

Hi maverick,

Currently we're providing an estimated mean opinion score for voice using the Nessoft Algorithm which uses latency, packet loss and jitter. To determine the jitter we're using Mausezahn to simulate a RTP stream to one of our servers.

A good write up on the Nessoft Algorithm is here: http://www.nessoft.com/kb/50

This isn't a true MOS test, as MOS is a subjective test and requires humans to perform it!

Currently we are only testing against a TrueNet server in New Zealand. We plan on also testing to a server in the USA. It is worth noting that most of the ISPs we're testing have vary similar MOS scores.

We are not advertising this as a reflection of the calling experience you'd received if you used a providers voice network, as obviously there'd be QoS, etc applied (hopefully) by any providers offering voice. More, it is an indication of the quality you'd receive placing a SIP call directly to another user within NZ or by using a 3rd party SIP provider.

Obviously to test a providers VoIP infrastructure we'd need to have accounts with them and place test calls via their infrastructure then compare the audio sent and received to check the audio quality, lost packets, etc etc. To provider fair comparisons we'd need to make calls to accounts both with the provider, on the PSTN and with 3rd party VoIP providers.

While we have considered this we haven't had the opportunity to implement it yet as, I'm sure you can imagine, it is vastly more complicated!

JohnButt

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Reply # 603764 2-Apr-2012 12:48

Volunteering is going extremely well for WorldxChange customers, we have hit our numbers limit on Auckland - but please continue to volunteer from Auckland, we sometimes need replacements for churn, not often, but sometimes :-)

Great to have the interest, I have been exceptionally busy keeping up

Volunteer here: https://www.truenet.co.nz/get-involved-become-volunteer-tester

We still need a lot of volunteers for WorldxChange in the rest of the country

maverick

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Reply # 603770 2-Apr-2012 13:00

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the reply , okay so your using the ping plotter add on, yes I understand the complications around this so hence the questions and concerns around the methodology and what your trying to achieve, also the questions around RFactor with RTCP packet based testing as opposed to MOS

Also understand that if you are saying your basing this around 3rd party then that is different, but I would question the wisdom of doing this and promoting it as VoIP testing, this I would believe would lead to confusion for most non technical readers, Truenet is looking at Broadband experience for the average Kiwi a majority of Kiwis will hopefully be moving to a New Zealand ITSP in the near future with UFB, most users are non technical people they will have no real understanding of the difference between a 3rd party provider like 2Talk and a proper ITSP that provides all their own network like ourselves, so any information published that would look to promote a VoIP quality measurement is going to create some confusion and not accurately reflect the quality of providers that have their own network as opposed to the flyby nighters, no way would we want to be painted in the same picture as these guys as I'm sure you will understand.

We also see how media and the such write these types of things up, Technology writers in this country for the major papers IMHO are incredibly poor and will lock on to any press release and promote it as gospel without doing any type of research or investigation, some of the stuff they quote from the Marketing arms of company's makes me want to jump off a bridge, To be frank I can see the same thing applying here as most of these writers have absolutely no idea about a carrier grade VoIP network or how one is even put together ...

Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

nedkelly

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Reply # 603774 2-Apr-2012 13:02

If my network was not such a complicated mess I might think about it.

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