Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


103 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 1


Topic # 12485 19-Mar-2007 23:28
Send private message

So...

My Budgetone BT100 on I-talk died....

I went to Dick Smith and purchased a PAP2T pre provisioned with Xnet (I currently use i-talk but am moving for the reasons that many others have mentioned in these forums)

I get home and call Xnet on Friday night, very excited to use my unit.

After a number of confusing questions about my telecom account number and telecom account name, and a short discussion about why they were so interested in Telecom when I was trying to LEAVE telecom, to which I got no good answer.  (A bit like phoning the power company and being asked for your cats vets details...)

I finally gave up and gave her my Telecom details, keen to use the service, I was excited when she asked for the MAC address of my unit, here we go I thought! Then I'm told, thankyou someone will call you on Monday to get this setup!! WHAT Monday !???

For a start this should have been WEB based
- Mac ADDRESS
- VISA Details
- GO.

But making me wait 3 more sleeps to play with my VOIP unit ARGH !

So then I asked her about the number, as I use i-talk to keep an Auckland number for clients even though I'm based near Taupo.

NO, we can't do that unless you have a home in Auckland.

WHAT !

I have to buy a house in Auckland to have an auckland VOIP number ???

So after a quick explanation to her about how the internet and VOIP are about global teleworking and telling her that I've already used my i-talk line from Thailand for a month....... she said someone would call me today.

(Monday) ring, ring..... hello.... Nope sir, our agreement with Telecom states that we CAN NOT offer you a number outside your local calling area.

So, I've factory reset my PAP2T and have set it up on i-talk.

VOIP is about breaking down boundaries, not telling me where I have to live. (I already have a SIP and SKYPE phone number in California, but don't live there either !

See ya Xnet, good try but no cigar.

Mac Jones



Create new topic
730 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 13


  Reply # 64351 19-Mar-2007 23:44
Send private message

This requirement to provide a local number is only for emergency services.  So, if you dial 999, or is it 111, they know approximately where you are.

Since their agreement with Telecom is only to provide local numbers, they can't break that.  However,  once you get the local number, where you take the device after that is your own business.




103 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 1


  Reply # 64353 19-Mar-2007 23:58
Send private message

I get that, but it does not help me get an Auckland number.

And their t's and c's say that I must notify them if I move, so even if I do "fake" an Auckland address by using a friends number then I still have to tell them i've "moved" out of the "09" area.....

VOIP should not have boundaries, or I should be able to put my home address here against my Auckland VOIP number for 111 purposes. I-Talk seems to handle this maybe they don't provide 111?

730 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 13


  Reply # 64354 19-Mar-2007 23:59
Send private message

But telling them you have moved address means that they change the number they gave you, does it??

Afterall, they're saying it is okay for us to take our devices overseas ...

But as stated, this was imposed by Telecom.


27165 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6596

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 64358 20-Mar-2007 06:19
Send private message

macjones:
VOIP should not have boundaries, or I should be able to put my home address here against my Auckland VOIP number for 111 purposes. I-Talk seems to handle this maybe they don't provide 111?


No they don't. Hence iTalk can never be a true PSTN replacement.

Don't blame the WxC guys for something that is legistataed in the NZ number deed. I agree completele that it's a stupid requirement but this has been thrashed out before on here and it's unlikely there will ever be a change to it in the forseeable future. The simple fact is you can't have a PSTN replacement that doesn't have a working 111 service.

The best hope would be for WxC to offer multiple numbers for an account, ie your main number would still be Auckland however you could buy say a Taupo trunk to add to the same account. Phil can probably answer whether this is something we'll ever see or not.


BDFL - Memuneh
61531 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12247

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

Reply # 64359 20-Mar-2007 07:21
Send private message

gchiu: But as stated, this was imposed by Telecom.


Everyone loves to blame Telecom. This is not a Telecom requirement, but a regulation.






3594 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 79

Trusted
WorldxChange

  Reply # 64361 20-Mar-2007 07:28
Send private message

Actually this has been discussed many times in this forum; however I will explain it once again. Whilst you are not getting what you would like, you actually need to remember we are not doing this to annoy people we actually have to comply with some rules and regulations set down for Telecommunications companies, some of these rules are outdated and don't handle the new technologies very well however we are bound by them. A major one of these is the NAD requirements for number allocation to geographical areas, and yes we do comply with these rules, some other companies do not , you will probably say italk do it but we do not believe that they comply with the rules and if they happened to get regulated on this then all those customers that have these number’s are not going to be very happy if they get removed. 

Hence this is also one of the reason why we have process in place to check, ie Telecom Account number , and you have said your self you can try and fake an addresses to get a number in the region you want and that’s also why we have T & C’s to cover you being responsible for keeping your address details up to date, as we are looking forward and expect 111 services to have some rules and regulations placed around them in the future,  it’s great for you to be able to say what you want but we have to look at the bigger picture, what happens the first time someone dials 111 which we support and the Police  /ambulance turns up at the wrong address, who become responsible ? and even worse if someone dies because of it once again where will the blame and finger pointing end up, would that concern you or would you just be happy because you can have a local number outside your geographical region. We have a commercial and social responsibility to all our customers and VFX is designed to be a next generation replacement phone service, in saying that we are probably more aware of this technology than you are but the rules and regulations in New Zealand at present do hamstring us, we would like nothing better to have a single personnel number for everyone and you can take it where you like, sorry but this is not available under the current number requirements as dictated to by the NAD (Number Administration Deed). 
 

If the rules around number allocation change then we will change with it and would be the first to applaud these changes , however they are not so hence the reasons, our help staff are pretty good at answering questions but they do have processes to follow so for people like your self that want more detailed answers at least we do have an avenue in this forum to air your concerns and I will generally answer them, you may not like some of the answers as it doesn’t suit what you are after but we do have reasons for them, generally you as a customer do not know the business requirements of a telecommunications company in New Zealand and will be coming from a “why can’t I have this” angle as seen by your comments here, so I hope I have shed some light on this for you.
 

Lastly the provisioning and web signup process, once again this comes down to our own internal processes, Web signup may be available in the future but not now, generally if you signup during the working week you will get same day provisioning, which when compared with trying to get a new telecom line I think it compares pretty favorably.  
 

I hope this clarifies our position a little better for you. We know it won’t satisfy every one and it never will (I so wish we could ) but we are pretty happy with our Cigar now and I hope we can meet your needs in the future.

Regards

Phillip Moore
Operations Manager
WorldxChange Communications




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications



103 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 1


  Reply # 64414 20-Mar-2007 14:34
Send private message

Thanks Phillip, good reply and I appreciate the time you took to word it.

I guess I made the assumption that VIOP was like IP with VO added ! But having to work within outdated regulations must be a pain...

My final 2 cents is...

Cellphones in NZ don't have 111 AGPS location but who knows the US E911 bill may make it here one day. So I understand on a cellphone it's my responsibility to describe my location.

The NAD for VIOP has big holes for 111 if I can just move and forget to update my location.

The best way would be for telecom to translate my IP address into my physical address for VOIP or e-mail or skype 111 messages. Telecom are the only ones who really know where that DSL enabled pair terminates. Relying on customers to update their address will leave a very messy 111 database.

Once again thanks for the thorough answer.

Regards
Mac


27165 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6596

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 64417 20-Mar-2007 14:53
Send private message

macjones: Thanks Phillip, good reply and I appreciate the time you took to word it.

I guess I made the assumption that VIOP was like IP with VO added ! But having to work within outdated regulations must be a pain...



I'm not sure if the regulations really are that outdated. At the end of the day if the 111 service doesn't work people will complain. If a VoIP phone is replacing a normal landline it needs to offer a 111 service and the only way an address lookup can be provided is if the physical address is loaded against the number. The same regulations apply in numerous countries (including the USA) and IMHO while they do cause a serious problem when dealing with VoIP there needs to be some sort of system in place if the expectation is there that once you dial 111 from a landline that the ANI/CLI hit will show an accurate address.



The best way would be for telecom to translate my IP address into my physical address for VOIP or e-mail or skype 111 messages. Telecom are the only ones who really know where that DSL enabled pair terminates. Relying on customers to update their address will leave a very messy 111 database.


That would have about as much chance of working as a pig flying. Not everybody uses Telecom for their internet connection.


3594 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 79

Trusted
WorldxChange

  Reply # 64423 20-Mar-2007 15:13
Send private message

Yes it is a bit of a pain I must say, This technology is designed to be flexable but the rules governing it in NZ are not (Yet),
 
111 services can be very tricky and has been extremely so in the US for the VOIP providers, the FCC then regulated the service  , we have spent sometime talking with Carriers in the US on how they have handled it, the common theme is that untill some form of GPS tracking is availbale for VOIP services the only option is to make the user responsible not the carrier.




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

25 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 6

Subscriber

  Reply # 64507 21-Mar-2007 11:00
Send private message

Hi Phillip,

What are the chances of getting some local Whakatane numbers with VFX?

Cheers,

Dan

3539 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 125

Trusted

  Reply # 64547 21-Mar-2007 16:18
Send private message

gchiu: But telling them you have moved address means that they change the number they gave you, does it??

Perhaps I should clarify this as I have asked WxC exactly the same question:

Maverick said to me that WxC don't have any policy of regularly going through their records to check that Billing Addresses match the details you have entered in their system for the benefit of the 111 Emergency Service.  As he pointed out, you may have moved your ATA to some other address for a couple of weeks, or in fact, it might be for 5 years.

Therefore, WxC will NOT ever change the number they initially gave you, unless for some reason you request it.

I hope that clears things up.

21552 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4395

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 64548 21-Mar-2007 17:37
Send private message

When I was signing up for italk they wanted telecom account numbers and stuff as well. I had to ask for supervisor to cut thru all that. They were quite happy with only a po box however. I am very reluctant to give companies my physical address otherwise they start posting stuff to the house. Being on the companies register means I get enough places thinking that my street address is suitable for posting things too.

Anyway, do xnet make me disclose my physical address to get a vfx connection?  




Richard rich.ms

3539 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 125

Trusted

  Reply # 64553 21-Mar-2007 18:08
Send private message

richms: Anyway, do xnet make me disclose my physical address to get a vfx connection?

It seems like you need a physical Billing Address in the area where you want your number to be connected.  But then you can change it later to a PO Box no problem.  I have just done this in the past month and WxC were quite OK with it.

3594 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 79

Trusted
WorldxChange

  Reply # 64561 21-Mar-2007 19:02
Send private message

Dan,

Here is the link to where we have local numbers available, we will look to be expanding the areas during the year as we roll out more POP (Points of Presence) ..sorry no time frame on this yet

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?ForumId=65&TopicId=10392




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

Create new topic

Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.