Facebook page to try and get Vodafone to commit to VDSL

Forums › One New Zealand (including Vodafone, WxC, Farmside) › Facebook page to try and get Vodafone to commit to VDSL

mobiusnz

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#129138 4-Sep-2013 23:14

I've started a Facebook page as it would seem that Geekzone forums and Vodafone's own forums do nothing to bring the fact the large numbers of users are considering (or already have) switching to other ISP's. I was about to switch to Snap myself tonight and lose the $13 Sky discount I get with Vodafone (And my suresignal!) when I decided to have one last crack. I wanted to ring someone to discuss even running it as a non-advertised service where clients supply their own modem but figured I'd never get to anyone with initiative and thought of Facebook - If they can bring very average lollies and biscuits back maybe it can do something useful!

So PLEASE if you are on Facebook go to

https://www.facebook.com/VODANZVDSL

and like & share the page to help get it some momentum!!!

Matt Beechey Mobius Network Solutions

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#890006 4-Sep-2013 23:29

They will launch VDSL when they are ready, most likely towards the end of this month. (along with UFB)

your facebook page wont make any difference at all

LennonNZ

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#890008 4-Sep-2013 23:30

Reading the Vodafone forums it looks like you have been answered already by John

"Until some official coms comes out we can't speak about future plans or services,

John"

Words like "pull finger" won't get you anywhere.

eXDee

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#890016 5-Sep-2013 01:15

You have to understand this isn't them intentionally delaying it. They know they are late to market. And they know they need to get it launched ASAP.

They bought Telstraclear, and if what i hear is correct a lot of infrastructure is being unified to remove the duplication, and this has to happen first before there are any significant changes on this front. They have to get their internal systems sorted so that they have the backend capability to deliver such a service effectively. A LOT has to go on behind the scenes to get something like this set up, especially for a company this size that was recently two companies, with a customer base this size. Telling them to "pull finger" implies that you don't understand this at all.

I feel your campaign will get a "That's nice dear, but it's ready when it's ready" sort of reaction. If you really need VDSL right now and cannot wait for it, then changing ISPs is your only option.

ZollyMonsta

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#890038 5-Sep-2013 06:59

Nice use and editing of a trademarked logo there. Did you have permission?

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sbiddle

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#890056 5-Sep-2013 07:48

mobiusnz: I've started a Facebook page as it would seem that Geekzone forums and Vodafone's own forums do nothing to bring the fact the large numbers of users are considering (or already have) switching to other ISP's. I was about to switch to Snap myself tonight and lose the $13 Sky discount I get with Vodafone (And my suresignal!) when I decided to have one last crack. I wanted to ring someone to discuss even running it as a non-advertised service where clients supply their own modem but figured I'd never get to anyone with initiative and thought of Facebook - If they can bring very average lollies and biscuits back maybe it can do something useful!

So PLEASE if you are on Facebook go to

https://www.facebook.com/VODANZVDSL

and like & share the page to help get it some momentum!!!

Maybe you could explain here why you think Vodafone aren't going to offer VDSL2? And what purpose a Facebook page will actually have?

Vodafone obviously realise that most competitors are offering VDSL2 and that to not offer this would leave them at a disadvantage in the marketplace.

Deploying VDSL2 however isn't quite as simple as you probably think. There is CPE certification, back end integration for CPE provisioning, upgrades of backhaul to support increases throughput, and more significantly the fact Vodafone are the biggest ULL provider in the country. Offering VDSL2 services means configuration and/or hardware upgrades of all of their Huawei DSLAMs and ex TelstraClear ALU ISAMs to support VDSL2 along with testing of this. All these things take time and money. A probable launch date has already been discussed several times on here.

We live in a free market where you have a choice. If you want VDSL2 now move to a provider that offers it.

mobiusnz

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#890223 5-Sep-2013 11:40

Wow - Can't believe the furor I've created considering the number of replies in posts of people wanting VDSL from Vodafone. My issue is that I've had numerous discussions at various levels and most have said they don't intend to offer it at all instead focusing on UFB over fibre. I have clients in Christchurch who have VDSL at their door and Vodafone won't sell it to them instead wholesaling an ADSL connection that they are trying to run 10 clients connecting to an Australian based Citrix server. Its fine day to day but they have a drag and drop facility to send electronic documents up to the server and if they get two users sending a large document while someone is sending a large email out that 1Mb pipe is a HUGE bottleneck (Think Swiss ball through a hose pipe). This client signed a 2 year contract with vodafone 2 weeks before they decided to go with a "Cloud" based solution to their previously inhouse SQL application due to new SQL Licensing requirements costing around $25K and now Vodafone can't offer them anything faster.

I have another Project Management client running a Vodafone ADSL who have between 5 and 8 staff working onsite at a large construction job all running VPN sessions over that connection - VDSL would increase the data speed 10 fold but even in case's like this Vodafone just shrug. They say they do have better services at the street but the building owner is blocking them running their own cables in so they have to wholesale Chorus Services - So add VDSL to the wholesaled service.

As I've stated I have a VDSL modem that works with Chorus (A Fritzbox from Snap) - They don't have to upgrade their cabinets when they are wholesaling Chorus Equipment - Yes they have to look at greater backhaul to truly deliver a better grade of service to VDSL/UFB clients but I'd be happy to get the faster upstream and downstream connection and still suffer contention - It'd still be a greatly improved service, and they need to improve the backhaul for UFB anyway.

I use snap VDSL at my office and I can download from an FTP server in Europe at 3.5MB per second (MegaBYTE not bit) but only get .3MB on my Vodafone ADSL at home from the same server even though my actually connection tests out at .8MB so there's either contention issues, international bandwidth contention or data manipulation going on as is but for me the better upstream connection alone would be a blessing

I've been with Vodafone for my business mobile since I went into business in 2000 and been very happy with their service and feel quite loyal but even a murmur that its definitely on the way would be a good start as silence or even denial that its needed isn't good enough and they are already losing clients that if they had an approximate timeframe would probably hold out so I don't feel pull finger is too harsh. Saying "We can't speak about future offerings without official word" is crap, either they are going to offer VDSL or not - If they aren't then they should say so and likewise if they are - If they haven't decided yet then again, PULL FINGER.

I try to stay fairly neutral where business clients are concerned and only voice opinions when specifically asked - If a client asks for an ADSL provider recommendation I go with Vodafone or Snap currently, Vodafone generally due to decent bundling of services but Snap if something outside the box is needed but if I don't get confirmation I'll be actively telling people to avoid Vodafone. VDSL is widespread in Christchurch, Cable and Fibre are not and for the same price for a business getting the faster upstream is so important, even before you think about remote access and VPN's just having the ability for large emails to leave an organisation quickly without clogging the pipe is important.

You are right, my Facebook page probably won't help as unlike important issues like Orange Chocolate Biscuits this one most people don't even understand but I wanted to see if I could get past the helpdesk and business account managers and get some sort of answer from higher up the tree.

And if they are reading this and you want VDSL guinea pigs - Then pick me - I have the equipment ready to go and I've already have the availability checked manually by Chorus through an agent here rather than the normal online database check - This is what I was told:

VDSL looks good
Download Rate Range WVS 0: 32.3 - 32.3 Mb/s
Upload Rate Range WVS 0: 10.0 - 10.0 Mb/s

Thats 4 times faster on download and 10 times faster on upload and I need it. I don't know why I stay loyal considering I've been in a Cellular black hole of 100 square meters for the last 12 years that has never improved in the middle of a busy suburban area so have to pay for a suresignal to enable me to spend money with them at home but at the end of the day I'd still deal with Vodafone over Telecom any day. But I'm sitting down to look at my bills and change my cellphone plan to the new $99 all you can eat and probably scrap all of my home services for Snap because now that I have VDSL at the office the difference is painfully apparent.

Please - Bag me all you want - If it keeps this at the top of the forum I'm happy!!!!

Matt Beechey Mobius Network Solutions

sbiddle

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#890247 5-Sep-2013 12:09

You're choosing to ignore the points mentioned above and instead expect a retail service to immediately be available just because a wholesale service is available. In the real world things don't happen like this.

As I mentioned above you're clearly unaware of the time testing and certifying CPE as well as building backend provisioning takes for these devices. None of this happens overnight.

You're also choosing the fact Vodafone is the biggest ULL provider in NZ. Roughly 50% of MPFs in NZ are serviced from cabinets and 50% from exchanges. Of those 50% serviced from exchanges a significant % are connected to exchanges where Vodafone has ULL gear. Configuration, hardware upgrades (if need) and testing of this equipment once again doesn't happen overnight. Where ULL services are available Vodafone services are delivered over these.

The fact Vodafone aren't saying they're not offering VDSL2 is because they are. If you're not happy waiting then move to another provider, the great thing about NZ is you have 20+ other ISPs who would love to take your money.

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mobiusnz

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#890271 5-Sep-2013 12:43

If you're not happy waiting then move to another provider, the great thing about NZ is you have 20+ other ISPs who would love to take your money.

Too true - but if I go elsewhere for Broadband I can't use my suresignal which means running out to the driveway everytime a call comes to my phone during breakfast and dinner (Happens all to often as clients start work at 7:30 at some places and assume I do too!)

The could lead to me saying - Bugger it, I'll take my mobile business elsewhere too. If I do this Vodafone are losing between $500 and $600 per month from a client, in itself not big for them but if 20 people do it it starts getting to large ammounts of money.

In terms of testing CPE, yes - For connecting to their equipment they need to do this, for Chorus equipment its already done. They can either source and onsell/provide on contract Zyxel's or Fritzbox's or numerous others or simply provide a list and instruct clients to get their own, I'm happy to provide my own. Not the best solution for a marketed public rollout but its a good stopgap to keep clients - And the clients who know what they are missing probably have the necessary skills and understanding.

I'm out of touch on the un-bundling but certainly early on most of this was going into high density areas in Auckland and Wellington with Christchurch missing out, I'm sure this has changed quietly behind the scenes but it still leaves cabinet clients stuck waiting. I'd like to be told I'm wrong but I'm guessing with their taking over the cable network in CHCH not to mention earthquake disruption to Telstra's offices etc that roll out of equipment to Christchurch exchanges has been slow to non-existent as where businesses are located now is not where they are likely to be in density down the track.

I only started the facebook page to try and get a feel for how many people are in my boat, and I suspect there are many dotted around the country and to try and start some discussion and hopefully get an input from Vodafone. If I was told that Vodafone plan with a certainty to launch a retail service of VDSL on ULL AND Chorus wholesale I would wait - Its not a burning need at this point, it would just make some of my business processes easier having a 10Mb VPN connection between home and office rather than a 1Mb bottleneck.

I'm happy this has fired the discussion back up here because all I found were people over months being told No or maybe and the discussion ends. I just think with their Supernet advertising it is actually misleading as much as I hate to say it Telecom possibly have a larger proportion of New Zealand able to get high speed cellular and broadband connections. I know LTE is live and I have an Iphone 5 that constantly tells me I'm on LTE in Christchurch but its often weak and even when strong I've had some pathetic speed tests of it, the upstream has been truly impressive but I'm getting the reverse of ADSL, 35MB up and 4 or 5 down most times I've tested it.

I recognise it can't be fired up as a full service over night but explain why they can't have chorus flick the switch on my DSLAM port to activate VDSL2+ but and let me use my own modem?? I recognise it wouldn't be comparable to my Snap VDSL at work as snap seem to have really invested in the backhaul for their high speed offerings but just getting fast upstream would be enought to keep me happy until Vodafone launch in full.

Matt Beechey Mobius Network Solutions

Inphinity

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#890284 5-Sep-2013 13:10

mobiusnz:

If you're not happy waiting then move to another provider, the great thing about NZ is you have 20+ other ISPs who would love to take your money.

Too true - but if I go elsewhere for Broadband I can't use my suresignal which means running out to the driveway everytime a call comes to my phone during breakfast and dinner (Happens all to often as clients start work at 7:30 at some places and assume I do too!)

You can change cellphone provider, too, and take your number with you. See if 2D or Telecom perhaps have better coverage in your area.

1080p

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#890322 5-Sep-2013 13:51

Why not switch to a better ISP that offers the service you want?

mobiusnz

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#890325 5-Sep-2013 13:55

1080p: Why not switch to a better ISP that offers the service you want?

Because I actually have loyalty to Vodafone as in 12 years they haven't done anything to upset/offend me so given a wait I'd take it. Also I lose the ability to have a Vodafone suresignal operating giving me good 3G coverage and the $13 discount per month on Sky. The $13 isn't an issue, especially as I'm seriously considering ditching sky anyway. I quite literally ONLY watch Rugby on Sky and paying close to $70 a month for a handful of Canterbury and All Black rugby matches is highway robbery but don't get me started on a "Sky needs to offer a pay for what you need package" facebook page ;) - Fully aware that would get huge ammounts of interest and absolutely no result.

Matt Beechey Mobius Network Solutions

eXDee

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#890326 5-Sep-2013 13:58

Inphinity:
mobiusnz:

If you're not happy waiting then move to another provider, the great thing about NZ is you have 20+ other ISPs who would love to take your money.

Too true - but if I go elsewhere for Broadband I can't use my suresignal which means running out to the driveway everytime a call comes to my phone during breakfast and dinner (Happens all to often as clients start work at 7:30 at some places and assume I do too!)

You can change cellphone provider, too, and take your number with you. See if 2D or Telecom perhaps have better coverage in your area.

This. Seriously, unless you have some weight to throw around due to being a large business contract, individuals or smaller companies aren't granted anything beyond what the standard mass market offering is. And they generally don't gain a lot from loyalty either.

Vote with your feet if this is such a pain point for you. I'm happy to swap to any provider that can give me the service i want to a high standard at a reasonable price. And if they can, i remain loyal to them. But if there is something that is not offered by them, or the price or quality dips, I see if it can be resolved and then I move on to a solution that does what i need. It's very easy to switch providers these days and that's why i'm always cautious of signing contracts, weighing up what my future growth or usage might be, as well as paying attention to how much it'll cost me to break them if it was necessary.

In fact for your mobile, telecom has the perfect promotion for you right now, port a number, any number at all, onto their prepaid system and they will give you $60 credit to use for only the cost of the sim ($5). Even if you go and buy a fresh $5 sim from another provider to port, its still $10 total for $60 worth of testing on their network for speed, coverage and quality. If you like it, move up to postpaid, they have plenty of open term no contract offerings.

And then there's 2degrees with their carryover minutes and data, which is also worth looking into.

sbiddle

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#890331 5-Sep-2013 14:08

mobiusnz:
In terms of testing CPE, yes - For connecting to their equipment they need to do this, for Chorus equipment its already done. They can either source and onsell/provide on contract Zyxel's or Fritzbox's or numerous others or simply provide a list and instruct clients to get their own, I'm happy to provide my own. Not the best solution for a marketed public rollout but its a good stopgap to keep clients - And the clients who know what they are missing probably have the necessary skills and understanding.

If things were only this simple. They're not.

With no offence to you it's very clear you don't understand what really goes on to build a mass market product and bring it to market. A mass market offering isn't as simple as sending out a modem and instructions on how to configure it. It's about offering a back end provisioning model for both provisioning of service, provisioning of hardware so a device will work when plugged in, and more importantly the ability to have a product such as TR-069 to allow support of the device.

Most ISP's out there are not into the BYOD market, hence the reason most supply hardware.

mobiusnz

457 posts

Ultimate Geek

#890344 5-Sep-2013 14:30

sbiddle:
mobiusnz:
In terms of testing CPE, yes - For connecting to their equipment they need to do this, for Chorus equipment its already done. They can either source and onsell/provide on contract Zyxel's or Fritzbox's or numerous others or simply provide a list and instruct clients to get their own, I'm happy to provide my own. Not the best solution for a marketed public rollout but its a good stopgap to keep clients - And the clients who know what they are missing probably have the necessary skills and understanding.

If things were only this simple. They're not.

With no offence to you it's very clear you don't understand what really goes on to build a mass market product and bring it to market. A mass market offering isn't as simple as sending out a modem and instructions on how to configure it. It's about offering a back end provisioning model for both provisioning of service, provisioning of hardware so a device will work when plugged in, and more importantly the ability to have a product such as TR-069 to allow support of the device.

Most ISP's out there are not into the BYOD market, hence the reason most supply hardware.

And as I went on to say - This is not for a Mass market product - This is for offering something as an "outside the box" solution to fill a need for clients for whom Vodafone cannot offer anything mass market *YET*. I recognize my $500 a month does not make me a large client to Vodafone but I suspect they have lost many small clients who jump ship to save $5 for better speed and likewise I know of two corporate clients expressing fustration and I deal in a small pool of clients in the Christchurch market.

I'm not in the ISP/Telco industry but I've been banging my head on walls dealing with them for a very long time in the IT industry - I FULLY recognise they have to build a good backend before a large advertised product launch but thats the difference between smaller providers like Snap and large organisations. After the earthquake we had a lawyer with a VPN between ashburton and christchurch City offered by Snap, Fibre at Christchurch back to Snap and Frame Relay at the ashburton end (Now Fibre). When the earthquake hit they couldn't find a business big enough for the CHCH team so moved to two seperate premises. Snap rapidly deployed a wireless connection at one site and ADSL stop gap until fibre was installed at the second. You wouldn't get that from the big guys.

Matt Beechey Mobius Network Solutions

michaelmurfy

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#890350 5-Sep-2013 14:46

It's simple, if you want VDSL then pay the extra and move to an ISP that offers it. If you're really wanting Vodafone to launch a VDSL product then wait.

Trolling members of this forum including moderators as well as the guys behind the Vodafone Facebook page is not a way to get VDSL, it's just childish to be frank.

Also I'd like to point out whilst you posted your Chorus prequal stats you won't get this unless several conditions are met, this is a weak indication and should never be taken seriously. VDSL is a best effort service and speeds are never guaranteed until it's connected and the connection has been up for 2 weeks.

And, I reported the Facebook page for you.

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