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135 posts

Master Geek

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# 18630 17-Jan-2008 10:08
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Hello world,

As a friend of mine, who is using a AVM Fritz!Box Fon, will surely switch to Fusion soon, I'm checking how to make it work with VFX.

So I created a VoIP account with invalid login (test/test) just to see, if SIP-communication succeeds, but I always get the following error message to every SIP-packet sent:

"Jan 16 21:57:15 voipd[16650]: message from UDP:58.28.20.150:5060 is illegal (Missing required header field (Via))."

So communication completely fails even before the login data is transmitted due to the missing via header, which seems to be part of RFC 3261.

Any idea how to make this work?

regards,

Inquisitor




router: AVM Fritz!Box Fon 7390 with Huawei K3765 USB modem attached as GSM voice gateway
VoIP-providers: intervoip.com | sipgate.de (German DID) | sipgate.co.uk (British DID) | sipcall.ch (Swiss DID)
connection: 100/5 MBit/s (DOCSIS 3.0)
mobile devices: Huawei P6 | Nokia Lumia 630 Dual SIM | Huawei: E5832, E1762, K3715, K3765 | Qualcomm Gobi 2000 in Sony VAIO VPC-Z12X9E/X

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Master Geek
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  # 105348 17-Jan-2008 10:41
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Hi Inquisitor,

at this stage the only Voip Hardware that we support is listed on this page here: http://xnet.co.nz/vfx/hardware.shtml

We also allow Asterisk (however we do not provide tech support for it), and at this time we do not support the AVM devices. As you will read in a number of forums there are multiple reasons for this, including compatability, security to just name a few.. take a look around the forum and I'm sure after a bit of reading you will agree..

Thanks

Josh




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  # 105351 17-Jan-2008 10:51
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The VIA header is avery important header field as it used for natting, we do not offer direct support on Asterisk , but there are a number of great guides written by people in the know for Asterisk  Tomy Hughes has written a great little doco and he talks about it here in this thread http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?ForumId=65&TopicId=17552







Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

 
 
 
 




135 posts

Master Geek

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  # 105378 17-Jan-2008 13:18
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I understand, that you can support only few devices, but maybe you should consider offering at least RFC-compliant service, so advanced users can use their own devices. Actually the early adopters, who are able of handling all the settings of naked DSL and VoIP are surely more advanced users, who are aware of what they're doing and want to make use of all the advantages of VoIP. But if you limit hardware support to a single vendor's devices you narrow the advantages of VoIP very much.
Besides you should really take a look on the FritzBoxes - those devices are the very best hardware for ADSL/VoIP and are way better than the Linksys stuff. Here in Europe AVM dominates VoIP-hardware market by far and I'm sure the FritzBox will make its way to the southern hemisphere sooner or later, too.
Also you should consider supporting Nokia's VoIP-capable phones - it's such a great feature to use VoIP underways and especially abroad, where those impertinent roaming tariffs apply.
If you guys gave me a VFX account (without DID number) just for testing, I would give you my full support and create a step-for-step guide for other users after we get it running.

@maverick
I couldn't find a single word on the via header in the linked thread, nor in the guides given there.





router: AVM Fritz!Box Fon 7390 with Huawei K3765 USB modem attached as GSM voice gateway
VoIP-providers: intervoip.com | sipgate.de (German DID) | sipgate.co.uk (British DID) | sipcall.ch (Swiss DID)
connection: 100/5 MBit/s (DOCSIS 3.0)
mobile devices: Huawei P6 | Nokia Lumia 630 Dual SIM | Huawei: E5832, E1762, K3715, K3765 | Qualcomm Gobi 2000 in Sony VAIO VPC-Z12X9E/X

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  # 105381 17-Jan-2008 13:34
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inquisitor: 

I understand, that you can support only few devices, but maybe you should consider offering at least RFC-compliant service, so advanced users can use their own devices. Actually the early adopters, who are able of handling all the settings of naked DSL and VoIP are surely more advanced users, who are aware of what they're doing and want to make use of all the advantages of VoIP. But if you limit hardware support to a single vendor's devices you narrow the advantages of VoIP very much.

If you search the forums you will find LOTS of discussion about why VFX does not offer service for bring-your-own-devices, with very good reasons. They have also indicated that they are potentially not the best option for advanced users who need more control/access.

They offer a defined, reliable service, that they can support well.










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Master Geek

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  # 105387 17-Jan-2008 13:54
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I got their point.

But on the one hand I'm proposing to widen the range of supported products and on the other hand they should let the user decide, which hardware to use (at his own risk). I don't expect support for individual devices, but just RFC-compliant serivce, as that will be necessary earlier or later when they start supporting additional devices.

I'm using VoIP for 5 years now and in the meantime it has become quite wide spread here in Germany, where I haven't seen such incompatibility between provider and hardware since the early days in 2003. Maybe have a look at some further developed markets and see, how you can emerge from competitors. In my eyes openness is one of the key factors of success in the VoIP sector.




router: AVM Fritz!Box Fon 7390 with Huawei K3765 USB modem attached as GSM voice gateway
VoIP-providers: intervoip.com | sipgate.de (German DID) | sipgate.co.uk (British DID) | sipcall.ch (Swiss DID)
connection: 100/5 MBit/s (DOCSIS 3.0)
mobile devices: Huawei P6 | Nokia Lumia 630 Dual SIM | Huawei: E5832, E1762, K3715, K3765 | Qualcomm Gobi 2000 in Sony VAIO VPC-Z12X9E/X

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  # 105407 17-Jan-2008 16:03
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Actually I have just re read this thread, and let me get this right you are just sending fake traffic to a live network to see how it works ? and becasue of the error message you are assuming that RFC's are not supported.

Now there may actaully be a very good reason for this and one I am in not willing to discuss in an open forum sorry.

Now support for an RFC, which part should we support ? 3261 is only part of it there are a lot more, do you want Sip Info or SIP Notify or SIP Invite for Call Hold the SIP Proxies are generally only supporting 1, what about Call transfer , Invite or Refer.What I am trying to point our here is that we will not allow devices that havn't been tested by ourseleves first to access the network.

Say we allowed you a test account so you could test your box, you will have no idea what sits in our network what happens if you test call dosn't hang up correctly and we have a 12 hour stuck call to a Mobile or 0900 Number will you be willing to cary to the cost when we get charged for the call ?,

When you say RFC certified devices I have had many vendors bringing boxes to us saying that they are RFC compliant but when you test half of feature sets don't work with the Softswitch so pretty hard to charge for services if they don't work across all devices and no matter what people say about support and they will support their own device if things stop working the SP gets the call, my DTMF dosn't work, my Call transfer dosn't work anymore how do we as a SP help the customer ?

Funny you should say Europe has open standards, I got back from a conference late last where there were a large number of european providers and one of the biggest issues raised by them and by most providers around the world...SIP Interop, putting devices on there network that didn't work with other devices and functions not working.


Not trying to be to over the top here but our Network has been built to be a bit restrictive in access as we are offering a service where all the services should just work and 99% of the time they do, allowing open access kills that in a flash.

For people like yourselves who may have a bit more knowledge and what to play there are other options out there, yes we don't give the users access to the devices, and have only recently started allowing access for Asterisk and are looking at the issues and support requirements around this as this is an open access device.


Final point we are always on the lookout for devives that will fill a market hole, Linksys is formost because it actually has a large range of product, from IAD's, IP Phones, DSL Routers, Ethernet Routers, IP PBX's all with the same SIP Stack interop is easy, but we do look for other options, when Fritzbox is available here we will probably take a look.

Hope you see where we are coming from.






Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications



135 posts

Master Geek

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  # 105468 18-Jan-2008 00:08
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The fact that already the very basic register-operation fails, while using a device, sold millions of times per year and dominating DSL-hardware market of a 80-million-country with a share of more than 40%, makes clear that something is wrong with your system.

The FritzBox works flawlessly with every SIP provider I've seen so far including all the major US-providers and I'm convinced the engineers at AVM have spent some more time on RFC-compliance and interoperability, than you have.

If you had given me a test account I'd used it for calling a test number (I hope you got an echo test) - anyway can't you restrict accounts? Also I'd given you my credit card as security, if it was desired.

I'm not asking for full support for all the advanced features - call transfers, invites, refers and RFC2833-DTMF are not that necessary, but the register is absolutely essential. So we're talking about the elementary RFC3261 standards, which obviously aren't met by you.
As long as you explicitly limit support to Linksys devices, customers can't complain about incompatibility.

If you run such a strict security policy, why do you allow computers, which pose a mch higher security risk, that you haven't tested?

Having registered my phone numbers for ENUM I receive a lot of direct SIP calls (without passing a provider's gateway) and I haven't experienced any interop problem in the past, allthough people call me from dozens of different VoIP devices and softphones.

When you're forced to buy another power-consuming ATA for $100, naked DSL makes little sense against the background of the trouble and cost for number porting, the modest monthly saving of $20 and the lower availability of VoIP compared to an anlogue landline. I fear my friend will keep his Telsta landline.





router: AVM Fritz!Box Fon 7390 with Huawei K3765 USB modem attached as GSM voice gateway
VoIP-providers: intervoip.com | sipgate.de (German DID) | sipgate.co.uk (British DID) | sipcall.ch (Swiss DID)
connection: 100/5 MBit/s (DOCSIS 3.0)
mobile devices: Huawei P6 | Nokia Lumia 630 Dual SIM | Huawei: E5832, E1762, K3715, K3765 | Qualcomm Gobi 2000 in Sony VAIO VPC-Z12X9E/X

 
 
 
 


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  # 105470 18-Jan-2008 06:32
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Sorry your actually a little bit off base here and your also assuming a lot at present without actually knowing what network elements your device is trying to talk to,

There is perfectly good reason why this is happening and has nothing to do with RFC3261 support but I won't be explaining why this happening.

More than happy for you to send us a box to take a look at and certify as I personally like the look of the Box
Wink , but realistically there has to be a demand in the Country for devices, Frtizboz is however not avialable in this part of the world commercially, so really at this point there is not a demand for this particular product line and to be honest this is the first time someone has asked about the product, at this stage there are no wholesale or retail channels in NZ anywhere so the product line is not even avialbale in NZ, so it makes no commercial sense to look at supporting a product on our network if there is no demand for it, does it ?.

Also the one major point for this is that is has to be a Telepermit device to be able to connect to the DSL network, all network devices Routers, Phones etc have to be Telepermited in New Zealand, since there is no suppliers of these devices in NZ I'm guessing they are not, might be an oppurtunity here for you then maybe.

For people that have one off type box and are not concerned about if the Phone services work or not and want to play around with settings there are other options for providers in NZ, we may not be the best option if a customer wants these types of options as we are a little bit more restrictive, we find that services work a little bit more reliably that way.




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

lon

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  # 105481 18-Jan-2008 09:57
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Check out this thread: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?ForumId=65&TopicId=18583

I  don't know if it is officially available, but I hope so, since it is certainly the solution that suits me.  Just get the data-only naked DSL, and then spend the $10/month savings on 2talk or whatever VoIP provider you please.

Cheers,
Lon

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  # 105530 18-Jan-2008 14:28
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While we're on the topic of supporting more devices, I have to put in a plug for the Siemens DECT phones. They are VOIP/PSTN capable and avoid the phone<->ata<->line echo problems that things like the SPA300x can have out of the box.

See http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Siemens+Gigaset+C450IP for the basic model, with pretty simple SIP functionality. I (/me kicks self) bought this one in Singapore, I should have bought the fancier one (S450 IP) that supports multiple providers and a simple dialplan.

Siemens make great bulletproof DECT phones, and their SIP stuff seems to be evolving okay. Very much consumer-edge, and I'm not plugging mine into my VFX connection, but they've got real commitment to their platform and regular firmware updates. It is the only nice DECT/SIP phone I'm aware of.

It'd be nice to see them in NZ as Telepermitted devices. Maverick if you'd like to see one in the flesh I can loan you mine for a few months.

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  # 105535 18-Jan-2008 14:50
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Cheers for that and the offer, we had looked at the siemens stuff earlier on including their ATA's and IP Phones they are actually not bad units , I was at a conference last year when they first showed off this unit it was very nice the main problems we found was the price points for the units , This is a nice looking unit but if it arived here my of my Guys will disappear with it im sure they are like Magpies and like the shiny new toys Wink.....so I might have a chat to my local Siemens Guy and see what the deal is.




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

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