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Topic # 58393 10-Mar-2010 20:01
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I've had nagging echo/delay issues with calls abroad for some time now and while the VFX guys are onto it I'm no further forward than I was some months ago.  Basically I cannot talk at the same time as the other person without all sound being cutoff, I get a 2 sec or so delay when I finish speaking to when the other party has finished hearing me and I can often hear my own voice carrying on for a sec or 2 when I have finished speaking.  This is mostly on calls to Aus.  I'm using a new Linksys  SPA922 directly connected on it's own on a high priority port on an AG300 and I have a second home line attached to a WRP400 also on a dedicated port

To cap it all I get much better performance using Skype which is buried behind firewalls and has other network traffic going across it.

The tech guys are trying to help, but my feeling is something is fundamentally wrong as I cannot believe other VFX customers would put up with the same delays/lag.

Any shared experiences, brilliant ideas, alternative approaches really appreciated.


Dave


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  Reply # 306060 10-Mar-2010 20:19
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Is this just to some specific numbers? What happens with calls inside NZ?


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  Reply # 306062 10-Mar-2010 20:23
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Also what times of day? What is your internet connection like?




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  Reply # 306063 10-Mar-2010 20:26
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Most of the numbers I call in Aus seem to have the problem, although for some bizarre reason calls to Brisbane landlines don't seem to suffer in the same way. Australian mobiles seems consistently bad. NZ calls seems mostly fine or at least far less noticeable. If I resort to using vodafone to call the same places, then I get decent service.

I've given the support guys some sample dates/times for troublesome calls.

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  Reply # 306066 10-Mar-2010 20:41
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Just out of curiosity if you do make lots of calls to Aussie is there any reason why you haven't signed up to an Australian VoIP provider? You could be paying ~12c for an entire untimed call rather than paying per minute.

Who do you use for your internet connection and what are you speeds like?


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  Reply # 306134 11-Mar-2010 06:26
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XNet VFX is the cheapest for calls to South Africa, which is why I've used them for the past 3 years. The delay and echo it better than anyone else I've tried. But when receiving calls from family in AU the quality is rubbish. In my experience the VFX platform is not the issue, I suspect either the AU interconnect or simply the AU phone system.




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  Reply # 306140 11-Mar-2010 07:28
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Hmm, let me look...... I actually call Aussie all the time and using exactly the same network... we eat our own Lunch here Laughing




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  Reply # 306143 11-Mar-2010 08:24
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Okay so took a look at some calls from yesterday and see a couple of things, you had a 5 min and 45 Minute call to Aus, One to a fixed line one to a Mobile.

Now the First call is your Fixed Line call for 45 Minutes, Inbound and Outbound is fine from the network end as we see all packets sent and rxed, also all latency and jitter levels look perfect so this call looks to be from a network standpoint pretty much perfect, however on the device end we see some packet loss, in this case 309 packets, now in saying that packet loss over a long duration call may not be noticable unless the packets were lost in a big chunk. But if you were getting laggy voice then something esle may be attributing.

Timestamp     : 15:50:02.185 2010-03-10
Direction     : RX
Remote IP/Port: 58.28.xxx.xxx
Local IP/Port : 58.xxx.xxx.xxx
Transport     : TCP
----------------------------------------
BYE sip:006126xxxxx92:8060;maddr=58.xxx.xxx.xxx;transport=tcp SIP/2.0
Via: SIP/2.0/TCP 192.168.4.66:5080;branch=z9hG4bK-b418d766
From: "099xxxxx60" ;tag=cb7937969a9b5c0fo0
To: ;tag=3201400a-13c4-4b96fe7c-784a46e-aeb82b3
Call-ID: cea37762-889b3eb3@192.168.4.66
CSeq: 103 BYE
Max-Forwards: 70
Authorization: Digest x
User-Agent: Linksys/SPA922
P-RTP-Stat: PS=132472,OS=2649440,PR=132154,OR=2643080,PL=309,JI=1,LA=0,DU=2649,EN=G729a,DE=G729a
Content-Length: 0


destination    mos    timestamp    packets-passed    packets-dropped    packets-lost    current-jitter   
99xxxx60    4.16    15:50:02 Wed     132472            0            0            0.051   
006126xxxxx92   4.16    15:50:02 Wed    132472            0            0            0.071   



This is the second call a 5 minute call to a Mobile, now the same trend seems to follow this call as well, perfect stats from the network , yet a bit of packet loss from the end user device.

Timestamp     : 16:08:52.574 2010-03-10
Direction     : RX
Remote IP/Port: 58.28.xxx.xxx
Local IP/Port : 58.xxx.xxx.xxx
Transport     : TCP
----------------------------------------
BYE sip:00614xxxxx18x:8060;maddr=58.xxx.xxx.xxx;transport=tcp SIP/2.0
Via: SIP/2.0/TCP 192.168.4.66:5080;branch=z9hG4bK-b1d3e2bb
From: "09xxxxx60" ;tag=a894d71eeeca533do0
To: ;tag=3201400a-13c4-4b970c19-7b9cdb7-9fd556b
Call-ID: de4d7972-3ee7f4f9@192.168.4.66
CSeq: 103 BYE
Max-Forwards: 70
User-Agent: Linksys/SPA922
P-RTP-Stat: PS=14476,OS=289520,PR=6159,OR=120007,PL=211,JI=3,LA=0,DU=281,EN=G729a,DE=G729a
Content-Length: 0



destination    mos    timestamp    packets-passed    packets-dropped    packets-lost    current-jitter   
99xxxx60    4.16    16:08:52 Wed     6204            0            0            0.097   
00614xxxxxxxx18   4.16    16:08:52.Wed     14476            0            0            0.06

So my thoughts after seeing the stats on this and the symptons you describe it possibly may be something in your actual local network handling of voice RTP traffic, ie the am300 may not be actaully handling the voice packets that well, what we can do to confirm is to set up recording and see if we hear any of your voice "echo" coming down the network back towards you, 

If you can PM when you have on of these calls I will take a look and see what I can see.   




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  Reply # 306270 11-Mar-2010 14:28
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I chose to use vfx for everything really. I take your point though that I could buy another VoIP Service, but I'd rather avoid doing that at the moment. It sounds a bit hard to manage!



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  Reply # 306272 11-Mar-2010 14:31
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Sure no problem. The stats are interesting and about the only thing I haven't changed is the AG300. The problem is (as I've mentioned to James) - I changed a bunch of stuff so far with no real sign it's made any difference at all. I don't want to add to pile of growing pile 'redundant' hardware unless I really know it's going to help.



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  Reply # 306275 11-Mar-2010 14:35
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Hummm.. still learning how to use this system.  Maverick, if you wanted to check with James on case 260108 then you might have the inforamtion you need already.  Otherwise I'm very happy to supply whatever else you need, kick boxes, reboot etc.  I'm embarassed to say I don't know how to 'PM' you, but I'm happy to talk on the phone.

Dave



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  Reply # 306903 13-Mar-2010 15:08
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I've now put the AG300 back to factory defaults and turned the QoS and ALG off for everything which I think is the advice I've been offered by support before.  Maverick, when you say it looks like the local network, as an FYI there isn't much of that in this instance.  The AG300 goes to the ADSL line and the SPA922 plugs into a port directly on the Ag300.  It couldn't be much simpler I think.  I do also have a second home phone on a WRP400 which is plugged into a different port on the AG300.  The last port on the Ag300 has a WRT54GL plugged in to service the home/office network.

I choose all the Ag300 and WRP400 and SPA922 because they are all supported devices for vfx, so I'm really hoping 'supported' means the support guys can suggest a specific setup/configuration of the Ag300 if that appears to be the culprit.  Otherwse what does supported mean?

Anyroadup....I will try the new setup out for a bit.  Fingers crossed


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  Reply # 307025 14-Mar-2010 08:36
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Supported means that the SIP stack and setup on the device will work with our service, all the functions and services, Call Hold, 3 way calling, call forwarding etc all work correctly with these devices and our network.

The issue just appears to be a small loss of packets possibly between the input to your router and the devices behind it.





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  Reply # 307054 14-Mar-2010 11:45
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Understood - As an FYI there are no devices between the router and SPA922. That device is plugged directly into the AG300, nothing in between. Our home line is plugged into a WRP400 and that is then plugged into the AG300.

One other thing I've also noticed which it would be great to get a view on, is that when the business line was shifted from the WRP400 (leaving just the home line on the WRP400), I was told that this old port would no longer work once the SPA922 was activated. Not unreasonable as my intent was to use the SPA922. But while the home line works, both lines registered on the WRP400 are still registered. In fact if I plug a handset into what should be a dead business line (replaced with the SPA922) I can still dial out.

Is that anything to be concerned about - two devices still driving the same line?



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  Reply # 308645 18-Mar-2010 10:32
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Progress has been made I think.  Some adjustements to the phone done remotely and me putting my AG300 back to defaults, taking off QoS and ALG seems to have had a noticeable effect. 

Thanks to all to commented.

I did also discover a flaw in my thinking in that I thought if I bought everything from the one supplier and used supported hardware throughout, I would have a complete end to end agreement.  I've now learned this is not the case, so at least I know where I stand now.


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