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57 posts

Master Geek
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Topic # 63019 18-Jun-2010 22:55
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I know everyone talks about their download speeds, but what is the maximum rate that the upload can sync at with ADSL2+?  I'm pretty sure that the cabinet is at the end of our street (100m or so).  The highest I've seen the upload speed is 520 Kbps. 

Below are the stats from my AG310 modem, and I'm on the Fusion plan if that matters.  The line attenuation seems minimal, so I'd expect a faster rate?  Any ideas?

DSL Status: Up              
DSL Modulation Mode: ADSL2+            
DSL Path Mode: INTERLEAVED            
Downstream Rate: 16447 Kbps            
Upstream Rate: 480 Kbps            
Downstream Margin: 12 db            
Upstream Margin: 6 db            
Downstream Line Attenuation: 6            
Upstream Line Attenuation: 3            
Downstream Transmit Power: 0            
Upstream Transmit Power: 0            
                                   
PVC Connection
Connection: 1
Encapsulation: RFC 2364 PPPoA            
Multiplexing: VC            
QoS: UBR            
Pcr Rate: 0            
Scr Rate: 0            
Autodetect: Disable            
VPI: 0             
VCI: 100             
Enable: Yes            
PVC Status: Applied

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 343169 18-Jun-2010 23:27
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catdog: I know everyone talks about their download speeds, but what is the maximum rate that the upload can sync at with ADSL2+?  I'm pretty sure that the cabinet is at the end of our street (100m or so).  The highest I've seen the upload speed is 520 Kbps. 

Below are the stats from my AG310 modem, and I'm on the Fusion plan if that matters.  The line attenuation seems minimal, so I'd expect a faster rate?  Any ideas?

DSL Status: Up              
DSL Modulation Mode: ADSL2+            
DSL Path Mode: INTERLEAVED            
Downstream Rate: 16447 Kbps            
Upstream Rate: 480 Kbps            
Downstream Margin: 12 db            
Upstream Margin: 6 db            
Downstream Line Attenuation: 6            
Upstream Line Attenuation: 3            
Downstream Transmit Power: 0            
Upstream Transmit Power: 0            
                                   
PVC Connection
Connection: 1
Encapsulation: RFC 2364 PPPoA            
Multiplexing: VC            
QoS: UBR            
Pcr Rate: 0            
Scr Rate: 0            
Autodetect: Disable            
VPI: 0             
VCI: 100             
Enable: Yes            
PVC Status: Applied


You know, I actually have a very similar problem!  With I was on ADSL1 (to the exchange) I had an upload sync of approx 800-900k (the maximum from what I know, however once the area was cabinet-ised, and even though the download sync jumped from 4.5 to 16Mbps, the upload sync DROPPED from approx 500k.

I have raised this with Vodafone (my ISP) and they sent me a huge form to fill out with multiple ping and speedtest results, but also one of their CSR's as quite addament that changing to the Business plan would improve sync speeds.  And wouldn't you know it, I used to be on a business plan.

He said they configure the DSLAM's differently for business customers.  Anyone know if this is true too?

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  Reply # 343217 19-Jun-2010 10:29
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Have you tried doing a full isolation test. The upstream traffic uses the lower part of the spectrum from 25kHz to around 300kHz, therefore the attenuation figure does not reflect what happening there.

I have found that poor or lack of correct filters can often cause the upstream channel to be upset yet the downstream is fine.

That is where I would be looking first, I rarely find connections that are very short to not achieve 900kb/s or more.

Also for 6dB attenuation I would have expected much better than 16Mb/s, again could point to filtering or line stub issues.

Cyril

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 343233 19-Jun-2010 12:55
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I am also using an AG310 on Fusion, and get the following:

DSL Status:        Up              
DSL Modulation Mode:       ADSL2+            
DSL Path Mode:       INTERLEAVED            
Downstream Rate:       8862 Kbps            
Upstream Rate:       925 Kbps            
Downstream Margin:       12 db            
Upstream Margin:       11 db            
Downstream Line Attenuation:       34            
Upstream Line Attenuation:       19            
Downstream Transmit Power:       0            
Upstream Transmit Power:       0

As you can see, the upstream sync rate of 925 kb/s seems quite a bit higher than yours.

Slightly OT, but that higher upstream sync rate doesn't seem to reflect in actual throughput - I can never get more than about 640 kb/s upload throughput, irrespective of the time of day etc.




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Master Geek
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  Reply # 343321 19-Jun-2010 21:41
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cyril7: Have you tried doing a full isolation test. The upstream traffic uses the lower part of the spectrum from 25kHz to around 300kHz, therefore the attenuation figure does not reflect what happening there.

I have found that poor or lack of correct filters can often cause the upstream channel to be upset yet the downstream is fine.

That is where I would be looking first, I rarely find connections that are very short to not achieve 900kb/s or more.

Also for 6dB attenuation I would have expected much better than 16Mb/s, again could point to filtering or line stub issues.

Cyril


Hi Cyril

Thanks for the suggestion regarding an isolation test.  There is a hard wired filter in the house (presumably located at the demarc point?), so in one of the rooms there is a panel with two jacks with one labelled ADSL and one for the phone.  The modem is plugged into the ADSL jack. 

In addition, Xnet fusion is naked ADSL, so there is nothing attached to the "phone" line coming from the filter.  In fact I completely disconnected the live "phone" wires as they originally fed into the house alarm.  (The alarm and phones now run through voip via the AG310).

In perfect conditions, what are the maximum up and down sync speeds possible with ADSL2+ ?

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 343810 21-Jun-2010 16:06
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The only thing that appears to be a concerning is your upstream noise margin,  it's relatively low.  Considering your downstream noise margin is at a normal level I'd have to think there is some noise which affecting your line. 

This could be due to internal wiring, could be a bit of crosstalk on the line or some other random issue.  Have you logged a fault with the helpdesk for investigation? 

The theoretical maximums are 24Mb down 1.0Mb up,  I think the highest I've seen is around 22Mb down 900k up.  







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  Reply # 343815 21-Jun-2010 16:26
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Agree, it could be a leg out of bed (one wire disconnected) which would create a large LF noise issue, you would have picked it up straight away if you used the POTS service, but as you are on VFX I presume its naked.

Cyril



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 344308 22-Jun-2010 21:04
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Cameronn: This could be due to internal wiring, could be a bit of crosstalk on the line or some other random issue.  Have you logged a fault with the helpdesk for investigation? 


Hi Cameronn,

No I have not logged a fault with the helpdesk as I was not entirely sure if it was slightly or significantly lower than what it should be.

I just tried an old DLink ADSL1 modem and managed to get a faster upload rate.  I then forced the AG310 to use G.dmt and got:

Downstream Rate: 7584 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 640 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 16 db
Upstream Margin: 12 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 4
Upstream Line Attenuation: 2
Downstream Transmit Power: 0
Upstream Transmit Power: 0

So it appears that I can increase the upload rate from 480 to 640 Kbps by forcing it to use ADSL1, although the download rate halves!

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Master Geek


  Reply # 344353 22-Jun-2010 22:56
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I had the same issue and saw the same with a number of our clients after upgrade to adsl2.
http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=52577

From the testing I did it seems to be a problem with certain routers but only shows when not on telecom broadband, I'm not sure if they use a different port profile or what but we have both a Telecom and Snap connection, both had Linksys AM300 routers, the snap connection had ~400kbps upload. Swapping the routers between connections made no difference, Snap tried a few different port profiles but the best result was from locking it back to ADSL1.

I ended up changing the Snap router to a TP-Link TD-8840 which uses a broadcom chipset (as do the ADSL2+ cards in cabinets) and we're now synced at ~900kbps upstream.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 344422 23-Jun-2010 08:50
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lokeynz: I had the same issue and saw the same with a number of our clients after upgrade to adsl2.
http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=52577

From the testing I did it seems to be a problem with certain routers but only shows when not on telecom broadband, I'm not sure if they use a different port profile or what but we have both a Telecom and Snap connection, both had Linksys AM300 routers, the snap connection had ~400kbps upload. Swapping the routers between connections made no difference, Snap tried a few different port profiles but the best result was from locking it back to ADSL1.

I ended up changing the Snap router to a TP-Link TD-8840 which uses a broadcom chipset (as do the ADSL2+ cards in cabinets) and we're now synced at ~900kbps upstream.


lokeynz, what kind of download sync and speed do you get on this modem?  Is it much different than your previous one?  I also have a Linksys, AG300 (just an ADSL modem)

I have the same issue with upload syncs now slower, since moving to ADSL 2+, so might buy one of the TP_Link devices ($65 on trademe makes it worth while!).


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Master Geek


  Reply # 344440 23-Jun-2010 09:22
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It was about the same as the Linksys AM300 for downstream ~19mbps.

With the TP-Link you can use DSL Modem Tool to lower the SNR margin and gain higher sync rates.
The SNR is basically the level of signal above noise, the higher the better from a reliability point of view.
From what I've read Telecom targets 12dB SNR whereas Orcon/Vodafone on their own LLU gear target 6dB, mine was 17dB at 19mbps, dropped it to 8dB for a 23mbps sync and it seems perfectly stable.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 344476 23-Jun-2010 10:21
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lokeynz: It was about the same as the Linksys AM300 for downstream ~19mbps.

With the TP-Link you can use DSL Modem Tool to lower the SNR margin and gain higher sync rates.
The SNR is basically the level of signal above noise, the higher the better from a reliability point of view.
From what I've read Telecom targets 12dB SNR whereas Orcon/Vodafone on their own LLU gear target 6dB, mine was 17dB at 19mbps, dropped it to 8dB for a 23mbps sync and it seems perfectly stable.


Wow, 23mbps, that's a good sync!  I guess you are on a road side cabinet?

I am on a cabinet, approx 200meters away, so will get one of these modems ASAP.  Is the DSL Modem Tool this product - http://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/thread-2638450.php ?

I am also going to change the cable from my jackpoint to the modem - is it long (about 1.5meters) and seeing as my modem is about 30cm away from the jackpoint, this should help a bit (the jackpoint is one of the new ones with a built in filter, and from there Cat5 to the demarcation point).  I am looking to make my own using Cat5, every little bit helps!

Does the higher sync (23) corrospond to a higher download, even through a canned test such as speedtest?

Cheers!

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Master Geek


  Reply # 344482 23-Jun-2010 10:40
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Yea that's the one, v8.07 is what I used.
We're about 100m line of sight to the local exchange, maybe 200m line length.



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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 344526 23-Jun-2010 13:11
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lokeynz: Yea that's the one, v8.07 is what I used.
We're about 100m line of sight to the local exchange, maybe 200m line length.




That's a damn good rate!  Just one more question - did you find an English version of the tool? I looked on the site and in Google, but couldn't find anything.

And how did you know it was compatible with your modem? Again I looked but couldn't see anything?  Or did you just download it and try?

Cheers

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Master Geek


  Reply # 344528 23-Jun-2010 13:18
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The installer gives you the option to install English interface.

I didn't know for sure it was compatible, just read somewhere that it works with most broadcom chipset routers so I gave it a shot.



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 344662 23-Jun-2010 19:54
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Hi lokeynz

Thanks for the link - it is useful to know that I am not the only one experiencing a slower upload connection on ADSL2+. I'll try to borrow a different brand ADSL2 modem from a friend and see if it connects at full speed.

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