Spark 4G lag/ping is double than Vodafone 4G

Forums › New Zealand Mobile and Wireless › Spark 4G lag/ping is double than Vodafone 4G

thelonepinetree

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#272811 17-Jul-2020 11:36

I've been travelling around NZ in a mobile home for the last 3 years with my wife and kids. To be "connected" as much as possible, we decided to be on different networks. I'm with Spark (on skinny), and my wife is on Vodafone (on KoganMobile). We also use an RBI modem on Vodafone (via Netspeed) in the mobile home, and Spark (on Skinny Wireless) in our home.

What I've noticed is that Vodafone on 4G generally has the lowest lag (ping). In good coverage, and during offpeak, it can be as low as 20ms, usually around 30ms. However Spark 4G lag has consistently been above 50ms in the same circumstances.

I thought that perhaps, this is because a lot of Spark's sites are ex-Telecom analogue sites that are radio-fed rather than fibre-fed, like a lot of Vodafone's sites are. But these results can are irrelevant of location - urban, rural, Auckland, Taupo, Waiouru, Bennydale, Opotiki, Te Kaha, Christchurch, Greymouth or Arthur's Pass (just to name a few). Also, what I found strange is that this lag is also present on the shared RCG sites. Just last week, I was in front of the Raurimu RCG site (which I believe is fibre-fed for all operators) and I was getting 21ms on Vodafone and 48ms on Spark.

Has anyone else noticed that? Does anyone "in-the-know" care to comment?

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#2524645 17-Jul-2020 11:51

depends on where you are testing too

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#2524648 17-Jul-2020 11:57

What does the Trace route or pathping show?

thelonepinetree

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#2524659 17-Jul-2020 12:14

Testing multiple points in NZ on speedtest.net - usually Voyager in Auckland seems to be the most reliable one. But same results on other endpoints too. I'm going to run on Spark, and then one on Vodafone RBI and will post the results here in 5 minutes - these results are similar all around country - irrelevant of the devices I use - and yes, all my devices are able to run on all the supported frequencies in NZ on all networks - so specifically LTE/4G: Band 1 (2100MHz), 3 (1800MHz), 7 (2600MHz), 8 (900MHz), 28 (700MHz) and 40 (2300MHz).

thelonepinetree

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#2524683 17-Jul-2020 12:53

For the below test I used the same modem - just to eliminate hardware in question.

Vodafone RBI (Netspeed) mtr to www.voyager.nz - but really the first hop is in question:

And Spark (Skinny Wireless Broadband):

There is always a difference between Vodafone and Spark - spark always has more lag, no matter where I am, even if I'm in front of the RCG site...

chevrolux

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#2524693 17-Jul-2020 13:04

All that demonstrates is the different peering arrangements Spark and Vodafone have.

Perhaps run a test to something more relevant - Google, Facebook, Netflix etc.

thelonepinetree

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#2524738 17-Jul-2020 13:28

The first hop is between PC and the modem, second and perhaps third hops are the ones in question. Forget about what happens afterwards, as there are way too many variables there. For that reason I'm also not looking at 3G. My point is that if the time is lost internally within the provider's network, you won't be able to get anything faster after it leaves the ISP.

So in the example above, this is Vodafone (thru Netspeed): 41ms and Spark 58ms. In fact, the third hop seems to be always present on Spark - it seems to be some kind of internal routing - which adds extra 11ms to the lag every time, making it Spark 69ms in my example. That's 28ms difference on each and every request. This is consistent with my experience around the country.

As I said, this has been consistent across the country that Spark 4G is always, without exception, slower than Vodafone 4G. I notice this as I'm a heavy user of SSH, and it's quite noticeable.

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Jase2985

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#2524749 17-Jul-2020 13:44

those devices de-prioritize ICMP (Ping) Packets, what their ping times are are really irrelevant in the scheme of things its the ping to the last hop you should be worried about

but like others mention ping 8.8.8.8 or something and see the difference there, real world stuff not speedtests.

thelonepinetree

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#2524795 17-Jul-2020 14:41

Well, 1.1.1.1 goes to Sydney, 2.2.2.2 to Los Angeles, 4.4.4.4 to Sydney and 8.8.8.8 also to Sydney, so I'm not using them for these tests, as I'm trying to stay local.

I understand ICMP isn't always a good tool, but what I found in my tests, is that ICMP response times are actually consistent with HTTP response times (via HTTP-PING), so in this case, ICMP actually IS a good indication of real-world behaviour... so here we go:

Conclusion... Spark 4G is consistently slower than Vodafone 4G. Question remains - why?

K8Toledo

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#2525522 19-Jul-2020 10:54

thelonepinetree:

I've been travelling around NZ in a mobile home for the last 3 years with my wife and kids. To be "connected" as much as possible, we decided to be on different networks. I'm with Spark (on skinny), and my wife is on Vodafone (on KoganMobile). We also use an RBI modem on Vodafone (via Netspeed) in the mobile home, and Spark (on Skinny Wireless) in our home.

What I've noticed is that Vodafone on 4G generally has the lowest lag (ping). In good coverage, and during offpeak, it can be as low as 20ms, usually around 30ms. However Spark 4G lag has consistently been above 50ms in the same circumstances.

I thought that perhaps, this is because a lot of Spark's sites are ex-Telecom analogue sites that are radio-fed rather than fibre-fed, like a lot of Vodafone's sites are. But these results can are irrelevant of location - urban, rural, Auckland, Taupo, Waiouru, Bennydale, Opotiki, Te Kaha, Christchurch, Greymouth or Arthur's Pass (just to name a few). Also, what I found strange is that this lag is also present on the shared RCG sites. Just last week, I was in front of the Raurimu RCG site (which I believe is fibre-fed for all operators) and I was getting 21ms on Vodafone and 48ms on Spark.

Has anyone else noticed that? Does anyone "in-the-know" care to comment?

Northland

1, <1 ms, <1 ms, <1 ms, <1 ms, 192.168.42.129
2, 37 ms, 31 ms, 34 ms, 23 ms, 10.207.86.169
3, *, *, *, 44 ms, 122.56.113.7
4, 36 ms, 38 ms, 39 ms, 46 ms, 122.56.113.6
5, 32 ms, 38 ms, 38 ms, 46 ms, 122.56.118.162, voyager-dom.akcr11.global-gateway.net.nz
6, 45 ms, 30 ms, 30 ms, 46 ms, 114.23.3.249
7, 27 ms, 18 ms, 42 ms, 38 ms, 114.23.0.223
8, 42 ms, 26 ms, 50 ms, 38 ms, 103.4.136.194

thelonepinetree

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#2525524 19-Jul-2020 10:58

Thanks @K8Toledo - is that on LTE / 4G ?

K8Toledo

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#2525526 19-Jul-2020 11:09

thelonepinetree:

Thanks @K8Toledo - is that on LTE / 4G ?

Yep, 2600 4G

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chevrolux

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#2525530 19-Jul-2020 11:29

thelonepinetree:
Conclusion... Spark 4G is consistently slower than Vodafone 4G. Question remains - why?

Poor conclusion. You aren't actually testing anything meaningful here. You are only demonstrating the different peering arrangements Spark has vs VF.

A simple test like this really doesn't demonstrate actual network performance. And why bother only testing local? A huge amount of stuff you consume will come out of Sydney. So testing to Sydney is far more relevant to your experience. Not to mention all the local caching the goes on, which again, is different for each ISP.

As for "Spark's sites are ex-Telecom analogue sites that are radio-fed rather than fibre-fed"..... oof... lol is all I can say to that.

K8Toledo

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#2525533 19-Jul-2020 11:54

The original tracert results in my last post are incorrect -I was connected via crappy 10mbps hotspot.

Below is LTE

thelonepinetree

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#2525581 19-Jul-2020 12:39

K8Toledo:

The original tracert results in my last post are incorrect -I was connected via crappy 10mbps hotspot.

I wonder if the added delay in my experience is perhaps CGNAT on Skinny's network, although the IP addresses suggest they're using the same IP addresses for routing as yours. What APN are you using @K8Toledo? I'm using skinny's "wapaccess.co.nz".

K8Toledo

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#2525601 19-Jul-2020 13:42

thelonepinetree:

K8Toledo:

The original tracert results in my last post are incorrect -I was connected via crappy 10mbps hotspot.

I wonder if the added delay in my experience is perhaps CGNAT on Skinny's network, although the IP addresses suggest they're using the same IP addresses for routing as yours. What APN are you using @K8Toledo? I'm using skinny's "wapaccess.co.nz".

I'm with Skinny (Spark). APN no idea whatever the defaults are.

I'm also 300m away from the the celltower with a clear LoS

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