Windows 10 uses customers' computers to distribute updates

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nathan

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#1357298 2-Aug-2015 20:38

Dreal:
ubergeeknz:
nathan:
mattwnz:

Although does that work if you are tethering a laptop to a mobiles WiFi hotspot, and the mobile is connected to 3G for it's internet.

Yes indeed that still works

How on earth would Windows know? Seems a bit far-fetched and prone to inaccuracy, to me.

Indeed.

will find out how and report back

raytaylor

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#1357387 2-Aug-2015 23:52

ubergeeknz:
This is all very well. But most users would not have a *clue* to do this or even that it would be an issue. ISPs should probably brace for a whole lot of customers with overage in the near future.

Already happening - customer downloaded 3gb in about 2 hours.
Went through the process of trying to work it out then during call trying to diffuse his anger at us for our "inaccurate data counter" he was doing some tests for me and was subconsciously reading out the stuff he was clicking on for me.

He asked me "Windows 10 is now ready to install - should I click yes or later?" or something to that effect.
I said oh thats interesting
He said, "Yeah its been popping up the last couple of days"
So i politely ended the call and told him there is nothing wrong with our data counter - and the 3gb download hasnt actually caused him any overage charges because he stays well below 70% of his cap each month - but likes to religiously watch it anyway.

Ray Taylor

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markl

348 posts

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#1357391 3-Aug-2015 00:27

raytaylor:
ubergeeknz:
This is all very well. But most users would not have a *clue* to do this or even that it would be an issue. ISPs should probably brace for a whole lot of customers with overage in the near future.

Already happening - customer downloaded 3gb in about 2 hours.
Went through the process of trying to work it out then during call trying to diffuse his anger at us for our "inaccurate data counter" he was doing some tests for me and was subconsciously reading out the stuff he was clicking on for me.

He asked me "Windows 10 is now ready to install - should I click yes or later?" or something to that effect.
I said oh thats interesting
He said, "Yeah its been popping up the last couple of days"
So i politely ended the call and told him there is nothing wrong with our data counter - and the 3gb download hasnt actually caused him any overage charges because he stays well below 70% of his cap each month - but likes to religiously watch it anyway.

Ok so that's the *install* for Windows 10. That's a completely different issue to the one being discussed. This thread is about the fact that the new update mechanism, once Windows 10 is installed, uses Microsoft's servers supplemented by peer to peer connections, in a similar manner to the way that bit torrent works. That, and the fact that you must opt out of sharing with other internet users in this way, rather than opting in to this approach.

nakedmolerat

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#1357397 3-Aug-2015 01:26

raytaylor:
ubergeeknz:
This is all very well. But most users would not have a *clue* to do this or even that it would be an issue. ISPs should probably brace for a whole lot of customers with overage in the near future.

Already happening - customer downloaded 3gb in about 2 hours.
Went through the process of trying to work it out then during call trying to diffuse his anger at us for our "inaccurate data counter" he was doing some tests for me and was subconsciously reading out the stuff he was clicking on for me.

He asked me "Windows 10 is now ready to install - should I click yes or later?" or something to that effect.
I said oh thats interesting
He said, "Yeah its been popping up the last couple of days"
So i politely ended the call and told him there is nothing wrong with our data counter - and the 3gb download hasnt actually caused him any overage charges because he stays well below 70% of his cap each month - but likes to religiously watch it anyway.

I think you misunderstood this thread :-)

Dreal

417 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1357401 3-Aug-2015 02:14

People are often hypercritical of Microsoft. But lets be honest here - how much work does it take to deliver an OS like Windows 10 versus say, Android. Windows as a more complex OS has been pay per license for years, especially for enterprise, and they are giving it away free.

How to they get paid for all that hard work, coding hours? Bing, sure, but it won't pay as much as Google search. OneDrive, maybe a little bit. What else? Maybe a little advertising. We are dealing with an OS that has collected major bucks and is taking a pay downgrade to adapt to the market.

That's a blessing IMO. Distrubution model like Skype makes perfect sense, even with data caps considering that updates I have seen so far are tiny. Especially because demand is very high.

I am not so much upset with the privacy or distrubution model as a little suspicious if there will be some later catch. Even basic office is free. Windows 10 after all is the Windows OS we have all been waiting for, excellent design and few few bugs. For free. I am not so upset by the distribution model etc, as waiting for the catch....

Tap That - Great cheap tablets and tablet accessories. Windows and Android, NZ based

afe66

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#1357411 3-Aug-2015 07:09

How does Windows detect I am on a "metered connection" ?

A.

raytaylor

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#1357537 3-Aug-2015 09:28

afe66: How does Windows detect I am on a "metered connection" ?

A.

You tell it in the network settings :-)

Ray Taylor

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wasabi2k

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#1357557 3-Aug-2015 09:53

afe66: How does Windows detect I am on a "metered connection" ?

A.

If it is cellular it is by default metered.

If you are on wifi (or tethered to a phone via wifi) you can mark your connected as metered manually.

garyasta

75 posts

Master Geek

#1357561 3-Aug-2015 09:56

All this conversation regarding "large" datacaps amuses me. I think you will find that this type of user is in a minority.

My peak-time usage is 4gb. I do have an old contract that has 50gb off-peak, so this is when I would choose to do any downloads, not at any time that Microsoft would choose to kick-in a download or an upload.

Any data transference outside of the datacap limits, costs me 11.5cents per mb (not gb!). Now that can be damned expensive for each gb ($115???) over the datacap.

My only connection is via satellite and when I hear of these large datacaps available, I can only dream, but then, I live in the real world.

gzt

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#1358198 3-Aug-2015 20:52

Setting metered connection to avoid p2p is overkill. You will miss out.

Just turn off the p2p setting in windows updates.

Shoes2468

785 posts

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#1358239 3-Aug-2015 22:04

mattwnz:
markl:
ubergeeknz:]

This is all very well. But most users would not have a *clue* to do this or even that it would be an issue. ISPs should probably brace for a whole lot of customers with overage in the near future.

I understand why Microsoft have done this, it's a smart move and one I've long wanted to see in Enterprise update distribution at least, but not telling people that you will be using their bandwidth to allow other customers to download updates is a bit on the nose.

I disagree. Like I said earlier, I doubt that must Windows updates are large enough over a month to cause caps to be blown. Obviously there are exceptions to that, of course, but I can't see there being a massive deluge of people with this problem ask calling their isp to find out why they've gone over their cap

Considering some can be in the many hundreds of MB, and most households would have more than 1 pc, I don't think this is the case. Also some PCs use mobile connections, and some are on rural internet which has very expensive data rates. For something like this, which is like P2P sharing, it should be opt in, not opt out IMO. I wasn't even aware of this until I saw this thread.

If it was opt in then it would reduce the number of people sharing. What that means is what everyone is worried about might actually happen, because lots of people would be downloading from a few people. The fact that it is switched on by default means there will be LOTS of peers thereby reducing the amount of data outgoing and will probably be negligible. If you are on a fairly limited connection then sure set Local only. The mere fact that Microsoft has implemented this feature means that if you have more than pc on the local network you will be saving data anyway.

gzt

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#1358271 3-Aug-2015 23:50

P2p updates is a great feature for local home network. Corp network can decide in group policy.

P2p on by default for Internet? That seems like a big benefit to Microsoft and very little benefit to users. I guess it makes it more likely to get an update and at exactly (well closer) the same time as everyone in a case of low ms server capacity in relation to load assuming there were ever failures?

Really I think this is about preparing a new distribution infrastructure (pretty cool) and do away with some older methods like caching serve capacity.

Soon enough your next store movie might be delivered peer to peer. But not just yet, wait for it...

nathan

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#1358422 4-Aug-2015 10:30

gzt: P2p updates is a great feature for local home network. Corp network can decide in group policy.

P2p on by default for Internet? That seems like a big benefit to Microsoft and very little benefit to users. I guess it makes it more likely to get an update and at exactly (well closer) the same time as everyone in a case of low ms server capacity in relation to load assuming there were ever failures?

Really I think this is about preparing a new distribution infrastructure (pretty cool) and do away with some older methods like caching serve capacity.

Soon enough your next store movie might be delivered peer to peer. But not just yet, wait for it...

the user benefit is faster delivery of updates and a faster internet overall with less wastage

Jedsdad

120 posts

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#1360444 7-Aug-2015 08:29

Just saw this in Computerworld

http://www.computerworld.co.nz/article/581313/microsoft-issues-first-hefty-windows-10-update/?fp=4&fpid=2117013024

Although Microsoft prefers to deliver updates after hours or when the device is not hard at work on productive chores, those eager to get the latest can manually trigger an update check. Without an idea of an update's size, however, they risk tying up their bandwidth for an extended stretch.

Today's update will be the first real test of Microsoft's alternate delivery mechanism, "Windows Update Delivery Optimization" (WUDO), which uses a BitTorrent-style peer-to-peer technology, commandeering customers' upload bandwidth to deliver updates and apps to other devices on the same local network, or to strangers simply connected to the public Internet.

If a user has set Windows 10 to file share only with "PCs on my local network," the 325MB update, once downloaded to one system on that network, will theoretically be handed over to other PCs on the network, eliminating duplicate downloads. If someone has four Windows 10 devices on their home Wi-Fi network, for instance, WUDO should reduce the over-the-Internet download by 75%, from 1.3GB to 325MB.

Hopefully there will be no snide remarks about Data Caps and the like!

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