Despair - Why aren't we protecting our kids!

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#1568187 8-Jun-2016 20:09

jmh:

You may have seen this but if not, Alain de Botton gave a great Ted talk on the down side of meritocracy. The key point is at 6.04.

Absolutely so.

And well argued by pointing out the change over time in linguistics - from "unfortunates" to "losers".

gzt

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#1568221 8-Jun-2016 20:28

I was googling for some stats on NZ child death statistics and coincidently saw some articles about Marches for Moko, there have been several over the past month in various towns and are ongoing. I don't know anything about it except what I read on Stuff. Is it organised by Sensible Sentencing Trust? That seems kind of weird because McVicar opposed the anti-smacking legislation and looks like he is just using this as a bandwagon. It's a much bigger issue.

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#1568274 8-Jun-2016 21:09

Justice is important but imo the focus needs to be 100% on parents and parenting.

Correct me if I'm wrong but in most of these cases leading to death it is a long process of multiple physical injuries over a long period of time. Then finally although everything else can be hidden, lied, etc - death cannot.

So I think it is reasonable to assume there are a massive number of kids who suffer this. Daily. Today. Ongoing.

I'm going to guess that kids in school have a better chance of being noticed having these problems.

Pre-school kids, well, less people are going to know.

So one contributor towards a solution may be getting more of at risk kids into some form of very early childcare/shared play and the social networks that tend to come naturally with that.

At the same time there is an opportunity to work on the parenting skills.

dickytim

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#1568353 9-Jun-2016 06:36

gzt: I was googling for some stats on NZ child death statistics and coincidently saw some articles about Marches for Moko, there have been several over the past month in various towns and are ongoing. I don't know anything about it except what I read on Stuff. Is it organised by Sensible Sentencing Trust? That seems kind of weird because McVicar opposed the anti-smacking legislation and looks like he is just using this as a bandwagon. It's a much bigger issue.

I am going to disagree that opposing the anti-smacking bill has anything to do with condoning, or not doing anything about child abuse. Opposing the anti-smacking bill was about allowing parents to use a reasonable amount of discipline on their children.

To me these marches are right up the alley of Sensible Sentencing.

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#1568363 9-Jun-2016 07:57

dickytim:
gzt: I was googling for some stats on NZ child death statistics and coincidently saw some articles about Marches for Moko, there have been several over the past month in various towns and are ongoing. I don't know anything about it except what I read on Stuff. Is it organised by Sensible Sentencing Trust? That seems kind of weird because McVicar opposed the anti-smacking legislation and looks like he is just using this as a bandwagon. It's a much bigger issue.

I am going to disagree that opposing the anti-smacking bill has anything to do with condoning, or not doing anything about child abuse. Opposing the anti-smacking bill was about allowing parents to use a reasonable amount of discipline on their children.

To me these marches are right up the alley of Sensible Sentencing.

Marches. That's useful.

Rikkitic

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#1568383 9-Jun-2016 08:23

If you need to hit a child to discipline it, something is already wrong with your parenting skills. The only thing this teaches the child is that using brute force on someone weaker than you is a good way of getting what you want.

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dickytim

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#1568385 9-Jun-2016 08:31

Rikkitic:
If you need to hit a child to discipline it, something is already wrong with your parenting skills. The only thing this teaches the child is that using brute force on someone weaker than you is a good way of getting what you want.

I would disagree with your view on this. A smack isn't about brute force its about consequenses for actions in a simple to understand form.

Fred99

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#1568392 9-Jun-2016 08:46

dickytim:
Rikkitic:

If you need to hit a child to discipline it, something is already wrong with your parenting skills. The only thing this teaches the child is that using brute force on someone weaker than you is a good way of getting what you want.

I would disagree with your view on this. A smack isn't about brute force its about consequenses for actions in a simple to understand form.

Yes - very simple to understand and get the message across:

The way to deal with behaviour you don't like is to initiate violence

and

Always do what you're told - or use of violence against you is justified

MikeB4

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#1568394 9-Jun-2016 08:48

Geektastic:
dickytim:

gzt: I was googling for some stats on NZ child death statistics and coincidently saw some articles about Marches for Moko, there have been several over the past month in various towns and are ongoing. I don't know anything about it except what I read on Stuff. Is it organised by Sensible Sentencing Trust? That seems kind of weird because McVicar opposed the anti-smacking legislation and looks like he is just using this as a bandwagon. It's a much bigger issue.

I am going to disagree that opposing the anti-smacking bill has anything to do with condoning, or not doing anything about child abuse. Opposing the anti-smacking bill was about allowing parents to use a reasonable amount of discipline on their children.

To me these marches are right up the alley of Sensible Sentencing.

Marches. That's useful.

They can raise awareness (something that is clearly needed) and can bring change, remember the Hikoi lead by Dame Whena Cooper? that brought about incredible change in Aotearoa New Zealand.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MikeB4

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#1568396 9-Jun-2016 08:49

dickytim:

gzt: I was googling for some stats on NZ child death statistics and coincidently saw some articles about Marches for Moko, there have been several over the past month in various towns and are ongoing. I don't know anything about it except what I read on Stuff. Is it organised by Sensible Sentencing Trust? That seems kind of weird because McVicar opposed the anti-smacking legislation and looks like he is just using this as a bandwagon. It's a much bigger issue.

I am going to disagree that opposing the anti-smacking bill has anything to do with condoning, or not doing anything about child abuse. Opposing the anti-smacking bill was about allowing parents to use a reasonable amount of discipline on their children.

To me these marches are right up the alley of Sensible Sentencing.

dont think of it as anti smacking but as positive parenting

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

networkn

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#1568447 9-Jun-2016 09:26

Rikkitic:

If you need to hit a child to discipline it, something is already wrong with your parenting skills. The only thing this teaches the child is that using brute force on someone weaker than you is a good way of getting what you want.

I couldn't more firmly disagree with your view on this.

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#1568464 9-Jun-2016 09:30

MikeB4:

They can raise awareness (something that is clearly needed) and can bring change, remember the Hikoi lead by Dame Whena Cooper? that brought about incredible change in Aotearoa New Zealand.

How many people do you think are NOT aware?

If the perpetrators weren't aware, then the abuse wouldn't be hidden, and very quickly become visible to someone who is aware.

frankv

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#1568474 9-Jun-2016 09:41

gzt: Justice is important but imo the focus needs to be 100% on parents and parenting.

Correct me if I'm wrong but in most of these cases leading to death it is a long process of multiple physical injuries over a long period of time. Then finally although everything else can be hidden, lied, etc - death cannot.

So I think it is reasonable to assume there are a massive number of kids who suffer this. Daily. Today. Ongoing.

I'm going to guess that kids in school have a better chance of being noticed having these problems.

Pre-school kids, well, less people are going to know.

So one contributor towards a solution may be getting more of at risk kids into some form of very early childcare/shared play and the social networks that tend to come naturally with that.

At the same time there is an opportunity to work on the parenting skills.

Teachers, including pre-school, are aware of child abuse. I agree that therefore getting kids into pre-school is important. Except that pre-school is for those who can afford it. And obviously if your child has signs of abuse, you aren't going to take them to play-group that week.

Maybe mandatory medical examinations every 3 months for *all* under-5s? Or monthly for kids identified as being at risk? This wouldn't need to be big-deal stuff... a Community Health worker or Plunket nurse (do we still have Plunket?) could go round doing the visits?

MikeB4

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#1568483 9-Jun-2016 09:48

frankv:

MikeB4:

They can raise awareness (something that is clearly needed) and can bring change, remember the Hikoi lead by Dame Whena Cooper? that brought about incredible change in Aotearoa New Zealand.

How many people do you think are NOT aware?

If the perpetrators weren't aware, then the abuse wouldn't be hidden, and very quickly become visible to someone who is aware.

There is a percentage of the population that live in a sheltered bubble that are unaware of the causes, extent and outcomes of all this or they know and just don't care and believe it's their issue.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Rikkitic

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#1568496 9-Jun-2016 09:58

networkn:

Rikkitic:

If you need to hit a child to discipline it, something is already wrong with your parenting skills. The only thing this teaches the child is that using brute force on someone weaker than you is a good way of getting what you want.

I couldn't more firmly disagree with your view on this.

I think there are many things we agree to disagree on.

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