Interesting video about Brexit

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#1579771 24-Jun-2016 19:22

JWR:

MikeB4:

Geektastic:

Not binding.... Unless you want a civil war.

yes ...

Unlike NZ UK politicians generally still have honour. They follow the Westminster system not just say they do. Ministers will actually resign, and PM's honour votes. Mr Cameron will full fill the wishes of the majority

even if its his last act.

Cameron will speak on TV3 in the next few minutes.

Odds he resigns?

Btw, is Paddy Gower drunk?

..and Cameron resigns.

mattwnz

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#1579772 24-Jun-2016 19:22

MikeB4:

David Cameron has announced the decision will be honoured as it should be.

And he is gone.

networkn

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#1579773 24-Jun-2016 19:23

MikeB4:

David Cameron has announced the decision will be honoured as it should be.

Ugh, I feel he has failed as the leader of the UK (he has not shown leadership). I know you won't see it as that.

MikeB4

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#1579775 24-Jun-2016 19:30

networkn:

MikeB4:

David Cameron has announced the decision will be honoured as it should be.

Ugh, I feel he has failed as the leader of the UK (he has not shown leadership). I know you won't see it as that.

On the contrary he has shown honourable leadership. He is following the will of the country and will work to bring this about for the best outcome possible. That is leadership.

If you want a democracy you must follow the will of the people, if you don't then have a different form of government. The Beehive could take some lessons from this.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

tdgeek

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#1579777 24-Jun-2016 19:31

networkn:

SJB:

networkn:

eracode:

Tens of millions of voters have expressed their wish and, although it's sort of close, there is a clear result with no margin of error in large actual numbers. It would be stupid of Cameron personally and bad for the country as a whole if he tried to tough it out.

Tens of millions have voted the other way as well. Something as monumental as this should not be decided on a margin of 3%. The impacts, costs and ramifications of this are world affecting and a much larger majority should be required to impact so many lives.

Presumably then if remain had won by 3% that shouldn't have been binding either.

Well one generally considers spending trilions of dollars to exit over retaining the status quo, then no. Since it's not binding, the comment from parliament should be "We held a referendum and whilst a small majority voted in favour, there isn't enough public interest to consider exiting given the huge ramifications and therefore we have decided as your elected government, to not continue down this path".

The opposition can then campaign on how they will exit if they are elected, and when the election is held, which IS binding, the people can TRULY make their choice.

No, its done. Its not NZ

networkn

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#1579779 24-Jun-2016 19:32

MikeB4:

networkn:

MikeB4:

David Cameron has announced the decision will be honoured as it should be.

Ugh, I feel he has failed as the leader of the UK (he has not shown leadership). I know you won't see it as that.

On the contrary he has shown honourable leadership. He is following the will of the country and will work to bring this about for the best outcome possible. That is leadership.

If you want a democracy you must follow the will of the people, if you don't then have a different form of government. The Beehive could take some lessons from this.

I agree he should follow the will of the people, WITHIN REASON. I don't think 52% majority voting in a NON BINDING referendum amounts to doing something in the public interest.

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billgates

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#1579780 24-Jun-2016 19:33

I will be buying GBP on Monday. Time to play global economics.

Do whatever you want to do man.

tdgeek

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#1579783 24-Jun-2016 19:35

networkn:

MikeB4:

networkn:

MikeB4:

David Cameron has announced the decision will be honoured as it should be.

Ugh, I feel he has failed as the leader of the UK (he has not shown leadership). I know you won't see it as that.

On the contrary he has shown honourable leadership. He is following the will of the country and will work to bring this about for the best outcome possible. That is leadership.

If you want a democracy you must follow the will of the people, if you don't then have a different form of government. The Beehive could take some lessons from this.

I agree he should follow the will of the people, WITHIN REASON. I don't think 52% majority voting in a NON BINDING referendum amounts to doing something in the public interest.

I get that. Its like who voted with old loyalty based on nothing, what parents think, or I want out of the EU, or who voted with their brains. BUT, when we vote n NZ every 3 years, its binding. So why not?

eracode

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#1579784 24-Jun-2016 19:35

MikeB4:

networkn:

MikeB4:

David Cameron has announced the decision will be honoured as it should be.

Ugh, I feel he has failed as the leader of the UK (he has not shown leadership). I know you won't see it as that.

On the contrary he has shown honourable leadership. He is following the will of the country and will work to bring this about for the best outcome possible. That is leadership.

If you want a democracy you must follow the will of the people, if you don't then have a different form of government. The Beehive could take some lessons from this.

Agree with all of this. Only problem is that he has not stepped aside immediately which prolongs some of the uncertainty that markets dislike. Thought his concession speech was quite statesmanlike under the circs.

(If anyone wants to follow this on radio, as I am, I can recommend a London-based newstalk station, LBC, streams on the 'net. Excellent IMO).

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

rmt38

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#1579785 24-Jun-2016 19:36

MikeB4:

On the contrary he has shown honourable leadership. He is following the will of the country and will work to bring this about for the best outcome possible. That is leadership.

If you want a democracy you must follow the will of the people, if you don't then have a different form of government. The Beehive could take some lessons from this.

I doubt you could get some of those metaphorical pigs out of the trough. They'd do the shuck and jive, and make certain their 100K+ remuneration stayed in place, so that they can add a few more rental properties to their portfolios to best capitalise on the housing shortage.

MikeB4

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#1579786 24-Jun-2016 19:36

networkn:

MikeB4:

networkn:

MikeB4:

David Cameron has announced the decision will be honoured as it should be.

Ugh, I feel he has failed as the leader of the UK (he has not shown leadership). I know you won't see it as that.

On the contrary he has shown honourable leadership. He is following the will of the country and will work to bring this about for the best outcome possible. That is leadership.

If you want a democracy you must follow the will of the people, if you don't then have a different form of government. The Beehive could take some lessons from this.

I agree he should follow the will of the people, WITHIN REASON. I don't think 52% majority voting in a NON BINDING referendum amounts to doing something in the public interest.

He had said well before the vote that he would do what the people voted for, if after the vote he said well I don't agree with you and you are not playing my game so I wont honour my previous statements then that would have been disgraceful. The two scenarios were known before the vote and the people have said this is what want.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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networkn

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#1579791 24-Jun-2016 19:42

I get that. Its like who voted with old loyalty based on nothing, what parents think, or I want out of the EU, or who voted with their brains. BUT, when we vote n NZ every 3 years, its binding. So why not?

I think perhaps you have misunderstood my point. My point is that Cameron should not have quit (Though he obviously doesn't want any part of this exit and it shows his conviction, which is good), he should have stood and said

"The majority wasn't enough to put the entire country and indeed world, through the unheavel". If you want this, you need a binding vote, and that can be at the next election. If our party if voted out, and the new party opts to exit the EU, then the real

will of the people will have been heard.

Elections are binding, and so that would give you the true measure of it. If people are prepared to vote out the party they previously favoured, to exit the EU and believe the party offering if can deliver that in a way that benefits the UK, then they will be out. I believe however, that would put a nail in the exit because I don't believe that the opposition can deliver this in a way that doesn't cause massive problems.

rmt38

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#1579792 24-Jun-2016 19:46

networkn:

I think perhaps you have misunderstood my point. My point is that Cameron should not have quit (Though he obviously doesn't want any part of this exit and it shows his conviction, which is good), he should have stood and said

"The majority wasn't enough to put the entire country and indeed world, through the unheavel". If you want this, you need a binding vote, and that can be at the next election. If our party if voted out, and the new party opts to exit the EU, then the real

will of the people will have been heard.

Elections are binding, and so that would give you the true measure of it. If people are prepared to vote out the party they previously favoured, to exit the EU and believe the party offering if can deliver that in a way that benefits the UK, then they will be out. I believe however, that would put a nail in the exit because I don't believe that the opposition can deliver this in a way that doesn't cause massive problems.

Didn't the EU do a release where they said a leave result would mean they would start proceedings to remove Britain from the EU? I seem to recall something along those lines in the live stream on reddit earlier.

tdgeek

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#1579793 24-Jun-2016 19:47

MikeB4:

networkn:

MikeB4:

networkn:

MikeB4:

David Cameron has announced the decision will be honoured as it should be.

Ugh, I feel he has failed as the leader of the UK (he has not shown leadership). I know you won't see it as that.

On the contrary he has shown honourable leadership. He is following the will of the country and will work to bring this about for the best outcome possible. That is leadership.

If you want a democracy you must follow the will of the people, if you don't then have a different form of government. The Beehive could take some lessons from this.

I agree he should follow the will of the people, WITHIN REASON. I don't think 52% majority voting in a NON BINDING referendum amounts to doing something in the public interest.

He had said well before the vote that he would do what the people voted for, if after the vote he said well I don't agree with you and you are not playing my game so I wont honour my previous statements then that would have been disgraceful. The two scenarios were known before the vote and the people have said this is what want.

I feel the bottom line is that this is democracy. It exists in an election. An election can be won by one vote. If we decreed that an election can be won by one vote, BUT if we arent happy with that, whats that? Its not democracy. Its really up to either side to put forward the best and proper arguments, so that the public, who arent generally qualified, to make a decision. So be it. If its a clear fail, then its a fail for then proponents of the losing side. Tough.

Linuxluver

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#1579794 24-Jun-2016 19:48

networkn:

eracode:

networkn:

Didn't Cameron come out and say a few days/weeks ago, that unless the margin was significant he would block it?

I can't really understand how a 3% winning margin could be grounds for what is potentially about to occur? I would have thought something as major as this should require 65% (or say 2/3 in favour) or default to stay.

It's a non binding referndum anyways right?

He did say that and it is non-binding - but it would be 'monumentally stupid' as mikeB4 says. This is all incredibly fascinating but would be even more interesting if Cameron tried that.

Why would it be monumentally stupid?

Agreed. If no party but UKIP was calling for leaving the EU then even if there was an election, the outcome woud almost certainly be a government that would not leave the EU.

I wonder if this will be enough to split the Conservative party? There are strong feelings on both sides of this issue within that party.

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