Smash and grabs at MHJ

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Awrrr
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#3083227 1-Jun-2023 11:05

Wombat1:

I'm still waiting for an answer from you about my question on the morality of dementia units in NZ. How do they differ from prisons where they too are keeping people against their will?

Answer to what? Your question is like the emission of an anal fog cannon. You are just spraying obfuscation by conflating things that don't make any sense. Dementia patients are often badly accommodated due to inadequate funding, but they are not prisoners. If they are confined it is for their own protection. That is hardly equivalent to incarceration for breaking the law. A more correct comparison would be with children, who are also often restricted in their personal freedom for their own good. Your point is pure BS.

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MikeB4

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#3083228 1-Jun-2023 11:11

@Wombat1 Rikkitic just answered more eloquently than I would have. So now can we have your citations etc

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#3083233 1-Jun-2023 11:25

Should make for some interesting OIA requests, although there is a trend that agencies are getting better and better at declining requests.

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Wombat1

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#3083699 2-Jun-2023 10:16

Rikkitic:

Dementia patients are often badly accommodated due to inadequate funding, but they are not prisoners. If they are confined it is for their own protection. That is hardly equivalent to incarceration for breaking the law.

But is that not the same thing for the rest of society? Bad criminals are confined for the protection of society. Can you really argue for the confinement of dementia patients "for their own protection" but not for the confinement of criminals for the protection of society?

Have you ever been to a dementia facility in NZ or a prison?

MikeB4

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#3083713 2-Jun-2023 10:43

Wombat1:

But is that not the same thing for the rest of society? Bad criminals are confined for the protection of society. Can you really argue for the confinement of dementia patients "for their own protection" but not for the confinement of criminals for the protection of society?

Have you ever been to a dementia facility in NZ or a prison?

Before you start typing (to stay in line FUG) your words how about considering the audience you maybe addressing. I don't know your background but here is an insight from myself and yes it is very hard for me to put to words.

My Dad suffered from Alzheimers. Before we were able to arrange safe living for him there were many times myself, my wife and siblings had to go and look for him as he would wander. He was a strong and physically capable man and could cover a large distance in a short time. This was extremely stressful on my family especially for my Mum. They were married for over 60 years.

When we finally got him into a care facility in Te Whanganui-a-Tara he was cared for with dignity, compassion, professionalism and yes love. Seeing him safe there was a great relief for my family and especially my Mum as this had taken a heavy toll on her. She never stopped visiting him even though in the later days he could not recognise her. Every day she would drive 30k to be with him and when she could no longer drive my wife would take her. He always recognised my children.

So there you are you have your answer from me.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

surfisup1000

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#3083723 2-Jun-2023 11:05

MikeB4:

When we finally got him into a care facility in Te Whanganui-a-Tara he was cared for with dignity, compassion, professionalism and yes love.

Wombat1's analogy is so far out of touch I don't think it warrants a response. Criminality is a choice, illness and disease are not. One is punishment, one is compassion.

I'm fed up with crime, 4 personal experiences in the last year, 3 with gangs. Son's motorbike has just been stolen again today. I bet it is the gangs again.

Friends moved away from Rotorua this year to escape the thuggery against their children. Cretin's would chase their kids around the streets for the crime of minding their own business. It's definitely a racial thing too. Maori teens targeting white kids walking home from school.

Lock the crims up, I don't care if they grew up poor. So do many other people who succeed in life.

The real factor here is education. Many of today's crims have been failed by the education system which has not catered for kids from homes like theirs. Lets get that sorted, put lots of specialised teachers to teach them the basics really well, while still at primary school. It will cost billions, but, I think it is worth it.

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alasta

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#3083749 2-Jun-2023 11:59

I get the whole narrative around supporting and rehabilitating criminals, but that takes time. In the meantime we need to do whatever it takes to keep the public safe.

I am getting to a point now where I get anxious about my safety every time I leave the house and that is not a sustainable situation.

MikeB4

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#3083966 2-Jun-2023 14:37

alasta:

I get the whole narrative around supporting and rehabilitating criminals, but that takes time. In the meantime we need to do whatever it takes to keep the public safe.

I am getting to a point now where I get anxious about my safety every time I leave the house and that is not a sustainable situation.

Don't let the press coverage and social media hype stop you from living your life. The press will find something new to play with soon. I do believe we need to increase Police community patrols . Stores and Malls need to review their security.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

johno1234

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#3083977 2-Jun-2023 15:25

MikeB4:

alasta:

I get the whole narrative around supporting and rehabilitating criminals, but that takes time. In the meantime we need to do whatever it takes to keep the public safe.

I am getting to a point now where I get anxious about my safety every time I leave the house and that is not a sustainable situation.

Don't let the press coverage and social media hype stop you from living your life. The press will find something new to play with soon. I do believe we need to increase Police community patrols . Stores and Malls need to review their security.

Really, MikeB4? No. You are trivialising a serious problem. Go tell a victim of violence (not that hard to find) that it is just "press coverage and social media hype".

My sister is a doctor. She's semi-retired but still does part time work for the police dealing with victims of sexual assault. Her advice to my daughter is to avoid the Auckland CBD and K Road as it is simply too dangerous. I agree with her.

Stores and malls are not the main problem. It is streets and footpaths.

alasta

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#3083978 2-Jun-2023 15:34

I totally agree. It's not a media beatup - unprovoked threatening and abusive behaviour is something that myself and my friends are encountering on a regular basis in broad daylight. The last example that I encountered was just earlier this week.

I don't remember experiencing anything like this five years ago, so there is a clearly a serious problem developing.

MikeB4

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#3083979 2-Jun-2023 15:34

@johno1234 No I am not trivialising it. The press is locked on to the ram raids/smash and grab hits for their normal reasons. These have increased but they are not new. The odds of a member of the public being affected by one of these raids is very slim. What I said was "Don't let the press coverage and social media hype stop you from living your life" and I believe that this is sound advice. Of course one has to be sensible and avoid unsafe places and again that is not new.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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alasta

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#3083980 2-Jun-2023 15:36

So Victoria Street in Wellington during business hours is now to be "avoided" because it is an "unsafe place"?

johno1234

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#3083984 2-Jun-2023 15:42

alasta:

So Victoria Street in Wellington during business hours is now to be "avoided" because it is an "unsafe place"?

Same for Queen St and Karangahape Rd in Auckland. Significant violent crime risk there, aggravated by presence of intoxicated people, drugs and gangs. Police are busy elsewhere or have other focus and shortages.

gzt

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#3083987 2-Jun-2023 15:52

alasta: I don't remember experiencing anything like this five years ago, so there is a clearly a serious problem developing.

Imo one aspect of this is increasing population and urbanisation. NZ is not used to this. Much of it badly planned. Many major cities and their suburban areas have these problems. It's not my intention to minimise this at all. I believe it's an important factor.

alasta

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#3083992 2-Jun-2023 16:07

gzt:
alasta: I don't remember experiencing anything like this five years ago, so there is a clearly a serious problem developing.

Imo one aspect of this is increasing population and urbanisation. NZ is not used to this. Much of it badly planned. Many major cities and their suburban areas have these problems. It's not my intention to minimise this at all. I believe it's an important factor.

This is actually a good point. Over Easter I spent a week in Hanmer Springs and Richmond, and the vibe was totally different. I didn't sense any of the anger and hostility that I get when moving around Wellington.

With remote working becoming more accepted, perhaps it's time to move somewhere else.

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