Clone a proprietary proximity card

Forums › Off topic › Clone a proprietary proximity card

1 | 2 | 3

653 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#1352539 27-Jul-2015 13:46

If the proximity card can be cloned by anyone other than the issuer or delegated authority then it is by definition an insecure system.

cisconz

cisconz
1342 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1352553 27-Jul-2015 14:02

berridge: The card issuer has allowed the sharing of cards in the past, but some idiots abused it. They are not very smart so they issued second (not duplicate) cards which allowed abuse. They say they can't issue a second identical card, not that they won't.

Sounds like a parking building card that allows 1 vehicle in and 1 out per card - In this situation a cloned card would stop the abuse.

Hmmmm

berridge

11 posts

Geek

Trusted

#1352600 27-Jul-2015 14:53

cisconz, you got it in one. So you can see there is no security issue.

Martin Spencer mspencer@msa.co.nz

richms

28192 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1352618 27-Jul-2015 15:07

125 Khz cards that just use the identifier can be easily cloned. Get a picture of the reader and someone may recognize it. I have a cheap cloner and blank tags from aliexpress that I was meaning to try out. Are you in auckland?

Richard rich.ms

Geektastic

17943 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1352645 27-Jul-2015 15:35

BlakJak: Correct, they can't issue a second identical card. They can issue another card with equivalent permissions. If they can't do this for you, I can't see how to solve your issue - the 'issuer' need to take it up and the draw-backs/hassles/negative-side of your current situation should be pointed out to them. Cloning the card would in effect be a circumvention of security measures that I seriously doubt would be condoned and would probably open you up to liabilities you don't want.

This must be true because otherwise only one person would ever be able to do whatever the card allows.

Jaxson

8044 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1352677 27-Jul-2015 15:58

berridge: cisconz, you got it in one. So you can see there is no security issue.

Can you elaborate on the issue please?

cisconz

cisconz
1342 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1352682 27-Jul-2015 16:12

Jaxson: Can you elaborate on the issue please?

2 People working part time.
2 Cars
1 Carpark
1 Carpark card

Want to have 1 carpark card in each car - System only allows 1 swipe in and 1 swipe out, so more car parks can not be used.

Hmmmm

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Jaxson

8044 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1352693 27-Jul-2015 16:21

cisconz:
Jaxson: Can you elaborate on the issue please?

2 People working part time.
2 Cars
1 Carpark
1 Carpark card

Want to have 1 carpark card in each car - System only allows 1 swipe in and 1 swipe out, so more car parks can not be used.

Assume these two workers are never on site at the same time? , and presently have to meet up to pass the card over each time?
If it's one swipe in and one swipe out at a time, then presenting a duplicate card when a car is already in there wouldn't presumably wouldn't work.

Is the card issued against a specific car park?

As others have mentioned, just trying to envisage why a second independent card, with the same access privileges assigned, wouldn't be possible instead?

Is this a case of can't be done in that particular system, or don't want to operate like that instead?

cisconz

cisconz
1342 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1352694 27-Jul-2015 16:26

The issue is that the system has no provision to lock out card B when card A is swiped in and vice versa.

Hmmmm

ghettomaster

387 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1352701 27-Jul-2015 17:03

It's not necessarily a parking building. Could be a boat ramp.

ghettomaster

387 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1352703 27-Jul-2015 17:07

Although a boat ramp would be less likely to have the "we never use it at the same time" factor.

berridge

11 posts

Geek

Trusted

#1352709 27-Jul-2015 17:20

It is a parking building and its fees are about to be increased 40%.
I share its use with my wife who drives a different car from me.
The building has software that won't let you in unless you have previously checked out. (I know because sometimes it breaks down and I have to leave without logging out. In that case the next day I can't get in with my plastic card so I have to take a paper card and throw it away.) So there is no way we can cheat the system.
However can you imagine how difficult it is to pass the card from one car to another when we are living independent lives and doing different things on different days.
All I want is a clone of the card so we can have one in each car!
It has to be a clone because it is not "keyed" to a particular parking spot. So if they issued a different card we could both go in at the same time and cheat the system, which we don't want to do.
Yes, cisconz, if their software were smart enough they could issue a different card and make it a virtual clone. (If card A is in the building then card B can't enter.) I didn't suggest that because it seems much more sophisticated than just issuing a clone card!

Martin Spencer mspencer@msa.co.nz

berridge

11 posts

Geek

Trusted

#1352733 27-Jul-2015 17:42

P. S. I have even suggested that I would pay a small increased monthly rent just for the convenience (though I shouldn't have to because this is such a trivial technical problem)! No joy.

Martin Spencer mspencer@msa.co.nz

roobarb

653 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#1352769 27-Jul-2015 18:19

berridge: cisconz, you got it in one. So you can see there is no security issue.

Right until the moment somebody loses a card and it gets cloned again....

What is the lost card process?

syousif

41 posts

Geek

#1352830 27-Jul-2015 19:19

berridge: P. S. I have even suggested that I would pay a small increased monthly rent just for the convenience (though I shouldn't have to because this is such a trivial technical problem)! No joy.

each user in their system can only be issued one card, card cloning is not possible from their security supplier or software/security equipment manufacturer. as most software don't allow same card number being used twice in the system.
cloning can be done, you need to provide card reader/ card info like is it 125Khz or 13.56? pic of car and reader would help in identifying the maker but not the technology, HID make both 125 and 13.56 (all types of cards) and then there are other makers as well.

if its 26bit 125Khz, this is easily cloned with cheap equipment fro Ali Express.

the second option is to register a second person and pay the same amount again to just get a card.

they don't want to take your word for it that if they can issue a second card (not clone) that you won't abuse the system, as the second card won't be restricted by the first card and you could be both inside the same time.

1 | 2 | 3