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# 177231 27-Jul-2015 11:33
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I REALLY need to make a duplicate of a proximity card that I share regularly with someone. Unfortunately it was issued from a proprietary system and regular card makers say they can't clone it.

I'm not sure this is the right forum. Please move if there is a more appropriate one.

Thanks.




Martin Spencer mspencer@msa.co.nz

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  # 1352438 27-Jul-2015 11:37
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And you can't contact the card issuers?



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  # 1352442 27-Jul-2015 11:40
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Yes I have and they don't understand the problem. It is a very long and complicated situation but sharing the one card is really awkward and the issuer refuses to consider issuing a duplicate despite the fact that there is no physical way we could abuse it.




Martin Spencer mspencer@msa.co.nz

 
 
 
 


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  # 1352447 27-Jul-2015 11:53
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Don't know how happy the card issuer would be with you cloning cards.

If this is work related pretty sure that would fall under the "things you can get fired for" bucket?



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  # 1352458 27-Jul-2015 12:07
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What you want isn't a clone of the card, it's another card (with another unique ID) that has the same permissions.

Every security system i've dealt with (several makes/models) do this as a standard thing with a small cost attached (For procuring the card and programming it).

Perhaps don't focus on 'cloning' and instead simply request what you need?




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  # 1352459 27-Jul-2015 12:07
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Incidentally card-sharing is often frowned upon as it kinda wrecks the audit trail.




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  # 1352461 27-Jul-2015 12:16
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The card issuer has allowed the sharing of cards in the past, but some idiots abused it. They are not very smart so they issued second (not duplicate) cards which allowed abuse. They say they can't issue a second identical card, not that they won't.
It's not a work issue, I'm a customer of the issuer.




Martin Spencer mspencer@msa.co.nz

 
 
 
 


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  # 1352465 27-Jul-2015 12:19
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Correct, they can't issue a second identical card.  They can issue another card with equivalent permissions.  If they can't do this for you, I can't see how to solve your issue - the 'issuer' need to take it up and the draw-backs/hassles/negative-side of your current situation should be pointed out to them.  Cloning the card would in effect be a circumvention of security measures that I seriously doubt would be condoned and would probably open you up to liabilities you don't want.




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  # 1352468 27-Jul-2015 12:20
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What type of card technology; Most modern cards authenticate with the unique id which cannot (easily) be cloned.



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  # 1352485 27-Jul-2015 12:35
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I don't know what technology that's why I thought of Geekzone so I could find an expert who could answer questions like that.




Martin Spencer mspencer@msa.co.nz



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  # 1352487 27-Jul-2015 12:39
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As I said at the beginning it's a long and complicated story. Trust me, security is not an issue. If I had two identical cards then either person using them could be liable if security were an issue (which it isn't). At the moment we are sharing the one card using the equivalent of the sneakernet and it is a right pain.




Martin Spencer mspencer@msa.co.nz

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  # 1352505 27-Jul-2015 13:01
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berridge: As I said at the beginning it's a long and complicated story. Trust me, security is not an issue. If I had two identical cards then either person using them could be liable if security were an issue (which it isn't). At the moment we are sharing the one card using the equivalent of the sneakernet and it is a right pain.


You are not going to get anywhere with this, I doubt anyone can imagine a legitimate use for this scenario other than perhaps some sort of university psychology study. Besides, the cards aren't programmable and are globally unique. Best suggestion is the one where the other person has their own card with the same access so you can tell who ate the chocolate biscuits on the weekend.










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  # 1352511 27-Jul-2015 13:10
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berridge: They are not very smart so they issued second (not duplicate) cards which allowed abuse.


I fail to see how a cloned card could be any less vulnerable to abuse than an additional unique card with the same privilege level. Either it's locked in a safe or server room, or it's not.
Especially as your web site is selling office space, as a customer I would be furious if more than one person was able to access the building without an audit trail.








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  # 1352531 27-Jul-2015 13:31
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If you have an Android smartphone with NFC try installing NFCTagInfo and scanning the card. This will only scan 13.56 mhz cards however (HID uses 125khz):

Mifare Classic cards are clonable
Mifare Ultralight (C) are clonable
HID (iClass) are clonable

Other cards not so much, all these card types should have really been phased out by now. However in practice not so much, Otago University still uses Mifare Classic..

BTR

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  # 1352534 27-Jul-2015 13:40
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My advice is it can't be done, if its proprietary then that extra code will be top secret especially if you are talking about building access cards. My advice is either argue it with them some more or choose a different provider. 

I would also check with the NZSA to make sure what you are trying to do is legal as its probably not.

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