A 17 second violation of airspace? Is Turkey nuts?

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#1434568 25-Nov-2015 13:47

Most nations are siding with Turkey on this one, and with good reason I think.

While the incursion was brief, they were warned 10 TIMES in the 5 minutes prior to change course, and it's not the first time they have done it. Russia appears to be doing it on purpose, probably on the assumption that Turkey wouldn't have the guts to respond. Bully tactics really.

It's happened so many times before Russia has previously issued an apology (which they clearly didn't mean). Turkey has a right to defend it's borders, and not doing so may leave them exposed should Russia have decided at some point to target them.

Sure it's going to make things difficult for Turkey for a while - but they had every right to do what they did.

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BTR

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#1434570 25-Nov-2015 13:49

Nobody like ISIS

But Turkey are buying oil of ISIS because its cheap.

Russia likes Syria

US Hate Syria

Turkey would rather bomb the Kurds than IS

US hates Russia

Russia Hates the US

Russia Likes Iran

The US is warming to Iran

Iran hates Israel

Israel hates Iran

The whole situation is a mess and the US have started it by supplying weapons and training militants who then go AWOL and start shooting US allies and the the US wonders what went wrong.

The Taliban and Boko Haram were both supplied weapons and training by the CIA, and then to top if off US soldiers return home after a tour of duty and miss the action and power so join the police force and start abusing the rights of civilians.

Murica, the land of the free.........

Meanwhile China sits quietly in a corner amassing a massive military force in a very short amount of time while baby sitting their mentally unstable cousin North Korea.

shk292

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#1434571 25-Nov-2015 13:55

Russia could also remember KAL 007 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007
269 dead

MikeB4

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#1434576 25-Nov-2015 14:02

ajobbins: Most nations are siding with Turkey on this one, and with good reason I think.

While the incursion was brief, they were warned 10 TIMES in the 5 minutes prior to change course, and it's not the first time they have done it. Russia appears to be doing it on purpose, probably on the assumption that Turkey wouldn't have the guts to respond. Bully tactics really.

It's happened so many times before Russia has previously issued an apology (which they clearly didn't mean). Turkey has a right to defend it's borders, and not doing so may leave them exposed should Russia have decided at some point to target them.

Sure it's going to make things difficult for Turkey for a while - but they had every right to do what they did.

Turkey wasn't being attacked, it was a short flyover something that could happen easily during combat operations. Turkey action were way over the top, cost two lives and escalated an already dangerous climate. NATO has been pushing Russia if they keep
poking the bear he is going to bite and bears bite hard.

Just goes to prove that the heads of state are too stupid to be in control of these arsenals.

MikeB4

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#1434578 25-Nov-2015 14:04

BTR: Nobody like ISIS

But Turkey are buying oil of ISIS because its cheap.

Russia likes Syria

US Hate Syria

Turkey would rather bomb the Kurds than IS

US hates Russia

Russia Hates the US

Russia Likes Iran

The US is warming to Iran

Iran hates Israel

Israel hates Iran

The whole situation is a mess and the US have started it by supplying weapons and training militants who then go AWOL and start shooting US allies and the the US wonders what went wrong.

The Taliban and Boko Haram were both supplied weapons and training by the CIA, and then to top if off US soldiers return home after a tour of duty and miss the action and power so join the police force and start abusing the rights of civilians.

Murica, the land of the free.........

Meanwhile China sits quietly in a corner amassing a massive military force in a very short amount of time while baby sitting their mentally unstable cousin North Korea.

A massive military like the US

I believe that China is keep the reigns on North Korea.

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#1434603 25-Nov-2015 14:56

MikeB4:
ajobbins: Most nations are siding with Turkey on this one, and with good reason I think.

While the incursion was brief, they were warned 10 TIMES in the 5 minutes prior to change course, and it's not the first time they have done it. Russia appears to be doing it on purpose, probably on the assumption that Turkey wouldn't have the guts to respond. Bully tactics really.

It's happened so many times before Russia has previously issued an apology (which they clearly didn't mean). Turkey has a right to defend it's borders, and not doing so may leave them exposed should Russia have decided at some point to target them.

Sure it's going to make things difficult for Turkey for a while - but they had every right to do what they did.

Turkey wasn't being attacked, it was a short flyover something that could happen easily during combat operations. Turkey action were way over the top, cost two lives and escalated an already dangerous climate. NATO has been pushing Russia if they keep
poking the bear he is going to bite and bears bite hard.

Just goes to prove that the heads of state are too stupid to be in control of these arsenals.

No, Turkey wasn't being attacked this time.

However, Russian Air Power has been helping the Syrians attack the Turkmen, and the Turkmen are backed and to an extent armed by Turkey.

The BBC have some good background on all of this.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34914375

And

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-23849587

Effectively, Russia are involved in 2 struggles in Syria, 1 against IS, and 1 helping Syria against the Turkmen. And Russia won't do anything to upset Syria because of their interests in Syria.

nakedmolerat

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#1434612 25-Nov-2015 15:06

DaveB: I wonder who Turkey is subservient to?

Do you really don't know who Turkey is subservient to?

NATO - Turkey has the second largest standing army after UNITED STATES

Turkey army is not really under their president or parliament. They see themselves as a separate entity, protecting the secularism.

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MikeB4

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#1434613 25-Nov-2015 15:13

nakedmolerat:
DaveB: I wonder who Turkey is subservient to?

Do you really don't know who Turkey is subservient to?

NATO - Turkey has the second largest standing army after UNITED STATES

Turkey army is not really under their president or parliament. They see themselves as a separate entity, protecting the secularism.

Turkey is a we bit down. China has the biggest then the US, India...... Turkey is about tenth

nakedmolerat

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#1434615 25-Nov-2015 15:15

MikeB4:
nakedmolerat:
DaveB: I wonder who Turkey is subservient to?

Do you really don't know who Turkey is subservient to?

NATO - Turkey has the second largest standing army after UNITED STATES

Turkey army is not really under their president or parliament. They see themselves as a separate entity, protecting the secularism.

Turkey is a we bit down. China has the biggest then the US, India...... Turkey is about tenth

I am referring to NATO.

Afaik China and India are not part of NATO.

MikeB4

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#1434617 25-Nov-2015 15:17

nakedmolerat:
MikeB4:
nakedmolerat:
DaveB: I wonder who Turkey is subservient to?

Do you really don't know who Turkey is subservient to?

NATO - Turkey has the second largest standing army after UNITED STATES

Turkey army is not really under their president or parliament. They see themselves as a separate entity, protecting the secularism.

Turkey is a we bit down. China has the biggest then the US, India...... Turkey is about tenth

I am referring to NATO.

Afaik China and India are not part of NATO.

Sorry I misunderstood your meaning.

Linuxluver

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#1434621 25-Nov-2015 15:42

DaveB: Did Turkey really think they were being attacked by the Russian aircraft? What the hell are they up to?

Are they annoyed that Russia is cutting off the oil supply that they have been buying off ISIS? Turkey plays a massive role in this area and one has to ask, do they really want stability in the area?

Is Turkey the "unknown wildcard" here?

Russia was (apparently) bombing ethnic Turkmen on the Syrian side of the border where the jet was shot down. Turkey is supporting the Turkmen against the Assad government and against the Kurds.....and against ISIS.

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Linuxluver

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#1434622 25-Nov-2015 15:46

MikeB4: This is a dangerous change. Turkey is a NATO member, the mutual defense treaties could make this very messy depending on Mr Putin's next move. I hope Europe has its best diplomats working on this.

This isn't 1914.

NATO won't blindly go to war against Russia over something like this. if Russia starts bombing Turkey.....then I could see things going the wrong way. More likely Russia will have fighter escorts and start shooting Turkish planes down over Syria.

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Linuxluver

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#1434625 25-Nov-2015 15:51

Mark: What would you do if you repeatedly tell someone not to come into your house but they walk in anyway ? You'd forcibly remove them out at a guess ?

It's more like the neighbour's kid always cutting across the corner of your lawn as he goes around the corner your house is located on.

So one day you are SO MAD at him cutting that corner you shoot him dead.

You'd be an idiot.

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DarthKermit

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#1434628 25-Nov-2015 15:57

The Turks say they warned the Russian plane ten times, the Russians say that no warning was received. Which version of events is the correct one?

We don't know jack at this point.

nakedmolerat

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#1434629 25-Nov-2015 16:07

Linuxluver:
This isn't 1914.

NATO won't blindly go to war against Russia over something like this. if Russia starts bombing Turkey.....then I could see things going the wrong way. More likely Russia will have fighter escorts and start shooting Turkish planes down over Syria.

Two fighters will escort every bomber has been confirmed by Russia straight after the incident including Moskva to be stationed nearby - with order to attack when in danger (ie the ship will launch attack as needed at anytime it feels their troops is in danger).

NATO has been waging war for sometime and they are mightily pissed when Russia jumped them for Crimea.

More salt to the wound after their marine was killed trying to save the pilots. They are shot by TOW missiles supplied by the US (this was confirmed by the US government).

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