A 17 second violation of airspace? Is Turkey nuts?

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DaveB

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#185498 25-Nov-2015 11:22

Did Turkey really think they were being attacked by the Russian aircraft? What the hell are they up to?

Are they annoyed that Russia is cutting off the oil supply that they have been buying off ISIS? Turkey plays a massive role in this area and one has to ask, do they really want stability in the area?

Is Turkey the "unknown wildcard" here?

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#1434441 25-Nov-2015 11:28

They will pay for that type of reaction

MikeB4

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#1434445 25-Nov-2015 11:33

This is a dangerous change. Turkey is a NATO member, the mutual defense treaties could make this very messy depending on Mr Putin's next move. I hope Europe has its best diplomats working on this.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

PolicyGuy

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#1434460 25-Nov-2015 11:54

Geopolitically, the current situation is about as bad as it can be for Turkey:

* They have hundreds of thousands of refugees streaming into and through their territory, putting enormous strain on their internal policing and welfare systems. Whilst the vast, vast majority are just refugees, there will be a small proportion of agents provocateurs, criminals, spies, and other 'nasties'

* They have two of the three superpowers and a range of proxies and allies playing 'chicken' along their southern border, with ever-increasing levels of sophistication in their weaponry, with the Iranians stirring the pot as hard as they can go just to add a little spice to the situation.

* Two of the three main on-the-ground factions on their southern border are the collective equivalents of psychopathic mass-murderers on a rampage ('daesh' because, well they are; Assad because if they lose, his Alawite sect kin-group will likely be wiped out as 'infidels' - so they are cornered rats).

* Oh yes, then there's the Israelis

* Perhaps worst-of-all (from the Turkish government's viewpoint) the Kurds appear to be on the brink of establishing an independant Kurdistan, which is something the Turkish government has been desperately and viciously fighting against for decades.

So, yes, the Turkish military is probably a bit twitchy

Mark

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#1434463 25-Nov-2015 11:59

What would you do if you repeatedly tell someone not to come into your house but they walk in anyway ? You'd forcibly remove them out at a guess ?

JWR

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#1434466 25-Nov-2015 12:03

DaveB: Did Turkey really think they were being attacked by the Russian aircraft? What the hell are they up to?

Are they annoyed that Russia is cutting off the oil supply that they have been buying off ISIS? Turkey plays a massive role in this area and one has to ask, do they really want stability in the area?

Is Turkey the "unknown wildcard" here?

Yes they are a wildcard.

Their president is clearly crazy.

Also, they are fighting against Kurds in Turkey and across the border in Syria.

But, the Kurds are one of the main groups fighting the Daesh.

Turkey recently declared they were stepping up attacks against both groups.

I think Turkey will be trying to take advantage of the hostilities in Syria for it's own short-term benefit.

I bet they also angling for lots of money from the US/Europe.

They won't be reliable allies in that area.

slingynz

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#1434467 25-Nov-2015 12:03

Mark: What would you do if you repeatedly tell someone not to come into your house but they walk in anyway ? You'd forcibly remove them out at a guess ?

They step into your house, then step out. You chase them down the steps and bash them in the back of the head with a baseball bat. Right?!

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nathan

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#1434474 25-Nov-2015 12:17

slingynz:
Mark: What would you do if you repeatedly tell someone not to come into your house but they walk in anyway ? You'd forcibly remove them out at a guess ?

They step into your house, then step out. You chase them down the steps and bash them in the back of the head with a baseball bat. Right?!

shoot them in the back, as they're inside your house and turning to run out

DaveB

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#1434522 25-Nov-2015 12:36

2012: Then Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan stated in 2012 that a “short-term border violation can never be a pretext for attack” after a Turkish jet was shot down over Syrian territory.

22 November 2015: Turkey threatens Russia over bid to OBLITERATE sick Islamic State terrorists - RUSSIA and Turkey are in deadlock after the latter threatened Moscow with “serious consequences” if it continues its bomb assault on Syria (as reported by various UK newspapers).

25 November 2015: 17 seconds is now obviously classed as a "long term" border violation.

I wonder who Turkey is subservient to?

surfisup1000

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#1434533 25-Nov-2015 12:46

This is not the first time the russians behaved like this.

They have regularly infringed the airspace of various nations over the years. eg,

"Russian bombers have increasingly entered Icelandic airspace"

The only surprise is this didn't happen earlier.

old3eyes

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#1434537 25-Nov-2015 12:56

surfisup1000: This is not the first time the russians behaved like this.

They have regularly infringed the airspace of various nations over the years. eg,

"Russian bombers have increasingly entered Icelandic airspace"

The only surprise is this didn't happen earlier.

I heard in the news this morning one of NZs foreign experts saying that a lot of the Russian bombs had infact been dropped in Turkish territory rather than on ISIS targets in Syria and may have been one of the reason for the attack.

Regards,

Old3eyes

Lias

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#1434555 25-Nov-2015 13:25

slingynz:
Mark: What would you do if you repeatedly tell someone not to come into your house but they walk in anyway ? You'd forcibly remove them out at a guess ?

They step into your house, then step out. You chase them down the steps and bash them in the back of the head with a baseball bat. Right?!

Easier to just shoot them, that way you don't have to chase them.

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Lias

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#1434558 25-Nov-2015 13:30

old3eyes:
surfisup1000: This is not the first time the russians behaved like this.

They have regularly infringed the airspace of various nations over the years. eg,

"Russian bombers have increasingly entered Icelandic airspace"

The only surprise is this didn't happen earlier.

I heard in the news this morning one of NZs foreign experts saying that a lot of the Russian bombs had infact been dropped in Turkish territory rather than on ISIS targets in Syria and may have been one of the reason for the attack.

It's not on Turkish territory, it's on ethnic Turkmen living in Syria, who are in militias fighting against the Syrian Government/Assad. Russia supports Assad, and most of the bombs it dropped have not actually been on ISIS, but on other factions fighting Assad, in particular the Turkmen militias. Russia calls anyone fighting the Syrian government "Terrorists" and bombs them, Turkey and the US, arms and supports them. It's a good old fashioned cold war proxy fight.

mattwnz

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#1434559 25-Nov-2015 13:32

What is going on at the moment in that part of the world looks like it is heading towards a WWIII.

MikeB4

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#1434560 25-Nov-2015 13:33

There must be something in the water in Europe that makes them go nuts every generation

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MikeAqua

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#1434564 25-Nov-2015 13:39

Rather unbelievable for Russia to be criticising Turkey ...

Turkey has warned Russia before about fighter jet incursions into Turkish territory.

Other governments have warned Russia that this is just the sort of incident their sloppy near/cross border fighter jet sorties could lead too.

Russia's goons (without provocation or warning), shot down a civilian passenger jet that was operating over Ukraine territory.

Mike

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