Movie set tragedy

Forums › Off topic › Movie set tragedy

1 | 2 | 3

1186 posts

Uber Geek

#2800222 24-Oct-2021 08:26

There's a lot of speculation and armchair-experting on the internet around this. I won't venture to much of my own opinion since a) I'm not an expert and b) there's still a lot we don't know.

I will make a couple of observations:

It appears that there are multiple points of failure here.

From what 'experts' on the internet have said, it seems that there's an industry-wide expectation of safety and what that consists of, but different approaches to arrive at more-or-less the same place. One thing that seems to be universal on all sets is that there should never be any live ammunition on set. Ever. If that rule had been followed, it massively reduces the chances of injury.

kingdragonfly

11190 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2800223 24-Oct-2021 08:32

Yelling "cold gun" on the set makes me wonder if "hot guns" on the set was a thing.

Independent UK: Alec Baldwin shooting: Star's stunt double also accidentally fired live ammunition before tragedy occurred

A stunt double for Alec Baldwin reportedly fired two rounds of live ammunition days before the Hollywood actor fatally shot cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, according to a report.

An anonymous worker told ABC News concerns about gun safety had been raised with producers, also claiming that there had been two accidental firearms discharges before the fatal incident, including with the stunt double.
...

New York Times: Alec Baldwin Was Told Gun in Fatal Shooting on Set Was Safe, Officials Say

...An assistant director grabbed one of three prop guns that the film’s armorer had set up outside on a gray cart, handed it to Mr. Baldwin, and, according to an affidavit signed by Detective Joel Cano of the Santa Fe County sheriff’s office, yelled “Cold Gun!” — which was supposed to indicate that the gun did not have any live rounds in it.

When Mr. Baldwin fired the gun, law enforcement officials said, it struck and killed the film’s cinematographer and wounded its director — and raised new questions about firearms safety on film sets.

The assistant director “did not know live rounds were in the prop-gun” when he gave it to Mr. Baldwin, according to the affidavit, which was made as part of a search warrant application. The affidavit did not specify what kind of ammunition the gun had been loaded with.

The results were deadly: Halyna Hutchins, 42, the film’s director of photography, was struck in the chest and flown to the University of New Mexico Hospital in Albuquerque, where she died, officials said. Joel Souza, 48, the film’s director, was shot in the shoulder area and wounded; he was taken to Christus St. Vincent Regional Medical Center in Santa Fe and later released.
...

gzt

17104 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2800237 24-Oct-2021 10:08

Batman: i'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. poor safety practice. health and safety NZ OSH won't be happy.

Deadlines and future careers on the line. Imo occurrences will be underreported for this reason. If the report above is accurate and people were endangered by ammunition fired on set the previous day, well.. you know..

Geektastic

17942 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2800247 24-Oct-2021 11:04

I recall from my days working for the Ministry of Defence that soldiers on exercise using blanks always had yellow inserts in the barrel on their weapon. This visually confirmed the weapon had blanks loaded to help prevent public alarm and prevented debris discharge but not gas discharge.

Clearly a prop on set isn't going to want a bright yellow barrel insert. However, I'm sure something could be done that didn't show visually but achieved the same effect.

Perhaps now it will be.

I'm not sure why live rounds would even be permitted on set: I can't think of any pertinent reason for having them.

JaseNZ

2576 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#2800255 24-Oct-2021 11:24

One of the pissed of workers who had walked off hours earlier could have swapped in a live round.

Just putting it our there.

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding : Ice cream man , Ice cream man

Technofreak

6530 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2800258 24-Oct-2021 11:37

JaseNZ:

One of the pissed of workers who had walked off hours earlier could have swapped in a live round.

Just putting it our there.

This sort of speculation is totally unnecessary.

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
Dell Inspiron 14z i5

Ge0rge

2052 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2800259 24-Oct-2021 11:40

neb:... and auto and semi-auto weapons won't cycle with blanks...

Really? You might need to go tell the military who've been making it work for multiple decades...

Absolutely incorrect.

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

kiwiharry

1030 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Subscriber

#2800260 24-Oct-2021 11:43

kingdragonfly: Yelling "cold gun" on the set makes me wonder if "hot guns" on the set was a thing.

Wonder if that is primarily it being ”America", so yelling "Gun" would normally constitue a real threat by an armed individual.

Also not everybody on-set would necessarily know the scene has a gun so can only assume that not yelling anything has probably resulted in some interesting situations in the past.

If you can't laugh at yourself then you probably shouldn't laugh at others.

Geektastic

17942 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2800261 24-Oct-2021 11:45

Certainly the Armourer on set will have questions to answer.

An actor in this situation can probably expect to be given the harmless prop he has been told to expect.

I'm a sporting shooter and, from habit long ingrained, would never accept a firearm from someone without checking and verifying the status of that firearm myself. I doubt actors would expect to have to do so, although perhaps they should.

SirHumphreyAppleby

2844 posts

Uber Geek

#2800264 24-Oct-2021 11:48

Geektastic: However, I'm sure something could be done that didn't show visually but achieved the same effect.
...
I'm not sure why live rounds would even be permitted on set: I can't think of any pertinent reason for having them.

Short of only using prop guns, I don't really think there is anything that can be done. In some cases it's not immediately obvious that the weapon has a bullet in it. That's why there are professional armourers on set overseeing these activities, to ensure the necessary checks are made.

I recall when I did explosives training being told categorically not to do anything with firearms even if we had a licence, specifically for this reason.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79250 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#2800276 24-Oct-2021 12:46

Reports seem to indicate it was the armorer's first film in that capacity...

Alec Baldwin Film ‘Rust’ Hired ‘Inexperienced’ Armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed Before Halyna Hutchins Shooting (thedailybeast.com)

mrdrifter

576 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#2800279 24-Oct-2021 13:04

Ge0rge:

neb:... and auto and semi-auto weapons won't cycle with blanks...

Really? You might need to go tell the military who've been making it work for multiple decades...

Absolutely incorrect.

No Neb is correct in relation to gas operated semi/auto (inertia driven can behave differently). The military when using blanks have the insert that geektastic referred to in one form or another, usually brightly coloured so it's easily identifiable.

The insert actually works as a restrictor on the gas flow enabling enough back pressure for the action to cycle. The majority (but not all) semi/auto weapons are gas operated, most of these long arms redirect the back pressure gases through a gas tube back to the bolt to cycle, or against a piston to cycle the bolt.

Obviously with the revolver used in this tragic incident doesn't work this way and a thorough investigation is required to understand how the negligence occured.

Batman

Mad Scientist
29760 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2800282 24-Oct-2021 13:09

Journeyman:

From what 'experts' on the internet have said, it seems that there's an industry-wide expectation of safety and what that consists of, but different approaches to arrive at more-or-less the same place. One thing that seems to be universal on all sets is that there should never be any live ammunition on set. Ever. If that rule had been followed, it massively reduces the chances of injury.

lol if that were the case there would never have been these sort of accidents. but they have been happening for decades now suggesting that that's not what happens.