Movie set tragedy

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networkn

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#290144 23-Oct-2021 16:08

I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/alec-baldwin-didnt-know-weapon-contained-live-round-when-cinematographer-killed-on-set-of-rust/PV7OS2YFUEU7E6LWDHKT4IXUIE/

Apparently, yesterday, whilst filming movie 'Rust', Alec Baldwin has accidentally killed Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was shot in the chest. Director Joel Souza, who was standing behind her, was wounded, the records show.

He was handed the weapon by assistant director who assured him it was safe to use.

It's a total tragedy for everyone involved, I can't imagine trying to live with that consequence.

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#2799995 23-Oct-2021 16:12

So from that the assistant director *should* be charged 😔

networkn

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#2799998 23-Oct-2021 16:16

zocster: So from that the assistant director *should* be charged 😔

Probably with a low degree manslaughter. This isn't unheard of on sets involving weapons.

I'd suggest any punishment handed out would pale in comparison of living with the error and consequences.

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#2800049 23-Oct-2021 16:37

zocster: So from that the assistant director *should* be charged 😔

The armorer is responsible for ensuring the weapon is safe, not the actor, (assistant) director or anyone else who may be relying on their professional judgement.

zocster

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#2800075 23-Oct-2021 16:40

SirHumphreyAppleby:
zocster: So from that the assistant director *should* be charged 😔

The armorer is responsible for ensuring the weapon is safe, not the actor, (assistant) director or anyone else who may be relying on their professional judgement.

They should have "work safe" equivalent there?

gzt

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#2800100 23-Oct-2021 17:21

Tragedy. The use of unmodified weapons on movie sets is questionable, The Screen Actors Guild should take the opportunity to ban this immediately. Unqualified people in the chain of custody even worse.

Dingbatt

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#2800108 23-Oct-2021 17:29

The incident took place on location in Mexico as far as I know. Don’t know how that will affect things legally.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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tieke

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#2800113 23-Oct-2021 17:45

Good reddit comment on this from someone in the industry:

"This is on the weapons and safety expert on set. Blanks are loaded with a real charge, but usually have a piece of cloth stuck in them to hold the powder charge for compression. The caveat is if the round is over loaded with a charge, the piece of cloth (or whatever it may be) can be discharged at such a high rate that it can be lethal at close range.

My guess is that the director of photography was trying to get a close up of a shot, probably damn near point blank range and the cloth discharged due to over powdering.

I have worked on a movie set that had these, and one thing I was extremely meticulous about was weight. All blanks are going to weigh the same, if one is heavier than the rest, I move that into a pile that would be for more of a long range shot (greater than 20-25 feet)

They were weighed upon arrival, they were put into weather proof boxing and labeled. They were weighed the night before the shoot, and they were weighed before loaded. Each was recorded and if there was any variance between the arrival weight and the loading weight, they were thrown into the distance box. Each was inspected by myself and someone that had no idea what they were looking at. I developed this method because when you work with these types of projectiles, very minor details can be over looked (such as finger print smudges/maybe a very minor defect) The job of the no - knowledge was to look over it and either say "this looks perfect" or "what is this?'

And obviously there was one more full inspection before these were loaded into the magazine/revolver. At this point they were tagged and put into a safe that only I and one person who was not a part of the production (someone off site) had the key/combination to.

These were also done in a designated area, that nobody except me, my nobody at the time, and the director had access to. This area did not allow even the EP/Head PA/etc. In. Before the scene was shot, the Director and lead camera operator were allowed in, they were not allowed to touch the weapons, they were only allowed to look and choose what they wanted for the scene. at that point I would take what was chosen, put them in a tamper proof box (most of the time zip tied) and transport them by myself, no one else was allowed in the same gator as I.

The actors trained to use them separately, and never touched mine until I handed them off for the scene. The director was only allowed to direct them, if anything needed to be handled, I was the one who touched them. If the actors had questions, we could talk about it on the run through. Every other weapon used during scenes where there was no fire were stripped of firing pins and inspected by myself. The barrels had rubber blocks in them and the magazines were stripped of their springs.

Anyone who's worked in a position like this knows that what I did was overkill, and caused a lot of contention. However, my priority was safety. Under my direction, no one felt unsafe, no one felt uneasy, and obviously being mostly liberals most of them hated guns in the first place, but I even put them at ease. When it came to handling, I was extremely alpha. EXTREMELY alpha. But we never had incidents like this. When it came to action shots on either b-roll or photography, all camera's were set to timers. I never allowed any non dummy guns to be photographed with anyone in front of them. This meant that our behind the scenes camera man never got a clip or photo of someone firing a gun with someone taking a photo in front of them.

No one ever got hurt. At the end of the day, I did exactly what I was hired to do. If this is something that you are interested in, you cannot bow down to anyone, not the EP, not the Director, not the studio, no one. Let them fire you if they have to.

All that to say, I feel like I know exactly what caused this, and it was both an accident, and reckless.

Edit: thank you all for the rewards and upvotes. I have seen the most recent news and I literally cannot fathom why there was cast and crew around a live weapon. This was not an accident, this was negligence. Pure and simple. We still don’t know all the details of course but the fact remains that this could have and should have been prevented. Also, it drives me crazy that people are calling these prop guns. Prop guns don’t shoot live ammo. This was a real gun. They can try to hash it however they want to make themselves feel better but this was at LEAST negligent homicide."

neb

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#2800116 23-Oct-2021 17:47

It may have been perfectly "safe" in the sense that it had blanks loaded, problem is that blanks can still kill you at close range.

Following up on @gzt's comment, you'd think that after the Crow tragedy in 1994 they'd have changed something... however a complicating factor is that Hollywood loves its moaarr dakka and auto and semi-auto weapons won't cycle with blanks, so to provide the required dakka you need both real weapons and real ammunition.

Eva888

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#2800142 23-Oct-2021 19:26

I don’t get it. Why can’t they have an empty gun and shoot it with sound effects to match? Why must it have blanks?

neb

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#2800143 23-Oct-2021 19:28

Eva888: I don’t get it. Why can’t they have an empty gun and shoot it with sound effects to match? Why must it have blanks?

See my previous post, there's an awful lot of physical effects required for firearms to look realistic, not to mention the semi/full auto problem, that can't be achieved in postproduction. Shaking the gun and shouting "bang!" really doesn't work for anything other than long shots.

tieke

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#2800165 23-Oct-2021 20:32

As it has been revealed that the bullet went through the DOP and hit the director behind her, it can't have been just blanks that were used. As it was a revolver, they probably did a Brandon Lee - the bullets are visible in a revolver so they use dummy rounds that look like bullets for shots where the barrel is visible, and then blanks for when it needs to go bang. On The Crow, (and possibly here), a dummy round had been left in the barrel which then got fired out by a blank that was later used (dummy bullet head with no powder+blank with powder and no head=one working bullet).

Of course, because of the Crow, sets are no longer supposed to have dummy and blanks mixed in the same weapon, but it was always obvious that incompetence was involved in the mix somewhere.

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kingdragonfly

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#2800167 23-Oct-2021 20:43

The armorer is responsible for ensuring the weapon is safe, not the actor, (assistant) director or anyone else who may be relying on their professional judgement.

Alec may have fired more than one round, since even blank round have some kick.

You need several things to go wrong to kill someone (usually)

Gun should be modified to shot only blanks.

Gun loaded with real ammo (Though the wadding in a blank is sufficient to kill if placed against a skull)

Gun barrel should be checked that it's clear. (one Hollywood accident involved a blank round firing a previously uncleared round)

Gun was pointed at someone (the cameraman shouldn't be the line of fire. Even a simple mirror would be enough)

neb

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#2800168 23-Oct-2021 20:44

neb: Shaking the gun and shouting "bang!" really doesn't work for anything other than long shots.

Sorry, should amend that: Unless your name is Robert Rodriguez, in which case you can make anything you want do what you need.

If you've never seen El Mariachi, watch it now, then watch the director's commentary to find out how virtually nothing you thought you saw on screen was what it seemed.

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#2800210 24-Oct-2021 07:25

Dingbatt:
The incident took place on location in Mexico as far as I know. Don’t know how that will affect things legally.

It was in New Mexico, so there is a criminal investigation, and most likely a civil one eventually

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#2800212 24-Oct-2021 07:40

tieke:

As it has been revealed that the bullet went through the DOP and hit the director behind her, it can't have been just blanks that were used. As it was a revolver, they probably did a Brandon Lee - the bullets are visible in a revolver so they use dummy rounds that look like bullets for shots where the barrel is visible, and then blanks for when it needs to go bang. On The Crow, (and possibly here), a dummy round had been left in the barrel which then got fired out by a blank that was later used (dummy bullet head with no powder+blank with powder and no head=one working bullet).

Of course, because of the Crow, sets are no longer supposed to have dummy and blanks mixed in the same weapon, but it was always obvious that incompetence was involved in the mix somewhere.

i'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. poor safety practice. health and safety NZ OSH won't be happy.

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