Jobs - the different places.

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#1244370 22-Feb-2015 19:47

I enjoy my private sector IT job. The business owners see the value in technology helping them which gives me a budget and choice of technologies I doubt I'd ever see in the public sector.

blakamin

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#1244375 22-Feb-2015 19:59

Sideface:

I don't think it makes any difference whether you work in the public/non-profit sector, or in the private/for profit sector - if you hate your job, that's bad news for you and your employer.

I don't think I agree with that... I haven't liked a job for years, but I always do the absolutely best job I can because I take pride in my work.

It's a personal thing. It's not a bad thing for my employer, but it's a bad thing for me.

deadlyllama

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#1244385 22-Feb-2015 20:11

I was going to write a long reply to bits of this thread but then realised that I was going into "people are wrong on the internet" mode.

I think rayonline is talking about ethics and morality and is it "right" to take a profit etc ... that's a big can of worms. If you don't think what your employer is doing is right, don't work for them. This gets tricky if you can't find a job working for someone whose ethics you approve of, of course.

richms: Please move to the USA and try out their for-profit health system -- they spend more on healthcare per capita than anyone else, with mediocre results.

AndrewNZ: According to Wikipedia 3/4 of the NZ tax take is personal income tax, and GST. So corporate tax does contribute to public services, but much less than the income tax and GST we all pay.

MileHighKiwi

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#1244388 22-Feb-2015 20:17

I work in the education sector and many of my colleagues say they feel like they are 'making a difference' working in that field. We're government funded and I see behind the scenes at how things are manipulated in order to gain more revenue from govt funding. There are many institutions being investigated for fudging numbers. At the end of the day my field of work is a good cause, but it all comes down to revenue in the end. The bureaucracy in govt funded organisations is ridiculous, so much money is wasted and it pisses me off.

I work in marketing and enjoy what I do; I get to do some pretty cool stuff, trying new technologies and working with lots of different stakeholders and I get satisfaction from achieving targets, finding innovative ways of doing things etc. Maybe I don't make a contribution to society like a paramedic or police officer, but I am happy with my career.

Sideface

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#1244393 22-Feb-2015 20:26

blakamin:
Sideface:

I don't think it makes any difference whether you work in the public/non-profit sector, or in the private/for profit sector - if you hate your job, that's bad news for you and your employer.

I don't think I agree with that... I haven't liked a job for years, but I always do the absolutely best job I can because I take pride in my work.

It's a personal thing. It's not a bad thing for my employer, but it's a bad thing for me.

Unhappy employees tend to under-perform (present company excepted).
So it's indirectly bad for the employer - whether or not the employer knows or cares about the employee's morale/motivation.

Sideface

AidanS

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#1244411 22-Feb-2015 20:54

Without profit motivated organisations we (IMO) wouldn't have as high of a living standard as we do now. Profit motivation is what forces businesses (and ultimately people) to increase their efficiency and productivity. This usually happens because of innovation into new methods and technologies and hard work. New technology, new innovation and hard work = better quality of living for us all. I've seen many public organisations and Government departments that simply have no "push factor" to be efficient. A single decision may take 3 weeks to make as it has to pass through 5 people from 3 different departments (for an exaggerated example). Who does that benefit? The 5 people that are employed, sure.

If the fire brigade were a privately owned organisation (as an example, IMO I don't think it should be) at least they would increase their efficiency, response times and technology. I don't think the fire service has "improved" much over the last decade or two as there is no "need to". However if they were a profit motivated service (especially if there were more than one organisation competing in the same market) then you would see response times like no other and technology we possibly can't even think of today.

As for the argument "well if you don't pay your fire brigade premium then they'll just watch your house burn down", a) They wouldn't even bother turning up to your address at all if you didn't pay your premium, b) It's your fault for not paying your premium. Just like if you don't pay your electricity bill your power turns off.

Arguing what should and what shouldn't be privatised is extremely subjective and takes into account large amounts of economic debate.

Sorry for the above, off topic discussion, but finally it broadly relates to the core question...

I think any "job" is important to the benefiting of society. Sure a doctor may be directly saving lives on the front line through a publicly funded service but what about the new innovative equipment they're using? There's a damn good chance that equipment was developed due to the competition in the market for health tools. Likely a private company makes said equipment. Should those employees feel like they "aren't helping society" just because their boss is taking a profit? It's because of the motivation to make the profit that the equipment exists in the first place.

rayonline

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#1244435 22-Feb-2015 21:02

deadlyllama: I was going to write a long reply to bits of this thread but then realised that I was going into "people are wrong on the internet" mode.

I think rayonline is talking about ethics and morality and is it "right" to take a profit etc ... that's a big can of worms. If you don't think what your employer is doing is right, don't work for them. This gets tricky if you can't find a job working for someone whose ethics you approve of, of course.

richms: Please move to the USA and try out their for-profit health system -- they spend more on healthcare per capita than anyone else, with mediocre results.

AndrewNZ: According to Wikipedia 3/4 of the NZ tax take is personal income tax, and GST. So corporate tax does contribute to public services, but much less than the income tax and GST we all pay.

Something on that line but I wouldn't use the word dodgy. For me I see I feel better working for a not for profit org. In the private sector it could just be the way it is - with larger orgs they find ways to increase profit and their competitors may just follow and do a similar thing. It could be as simply as just hiking the costs up and in the org you could be in IT or marketing or coporate comms you just do your job while accepting it. Not saying it is wrong, could just be business.

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blakamin

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#1244439 22-Feb-2015 21:09

Sideface:
Unhappy employees tend to under-perform (present company excepted).

yeah, maybe 2/3rds. Some people still want to do a good job though.... It helps when they're looking for their next job! :D

Sideface:
So it's indirectly bad for the employer - whether or not the employer knows or cares about the employee's morale/motivation.

A lot of the places have worked for lately have no idea what the employees think, and couldn't give a rats. That's the way they like it.
I worked for a place with 11-15 people out in the factory (at the busy time) and didn't even see the boss for the first 2 months. I think he spoke to me once in 6 months. Not a great way to inspire loyalty, teamwork or job satisfaction.
In my part of the working world, you'd actually be amazed to find someone that does like their job. And most of that has to do with the way places are run.
Most of the time, in my world, a job is just a means to an end. Because the other options are worse.

andrewNZ

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#1244445 22-Feb-2015 21:21

rayonline: Maybe a more accurate way to say is - do people in general genuinely enjoy their job?

If one worked as a medic or a receptionist at at local medical centre they can certainly see value in their work. Likewise, life coach, fitness instructors, teachers and nurses. But many of the essential jobs are clerical workers, sale reps, finance managers, frontline staff like customer service on phone or in person.

I LOVE my job, that's why I do it. When m job is no longer enjoyable I find another one.

I have worked for a SOE, and I am now of the firm opinion that SOE's would NEVER compete in the private sector. The way they are run is an absolute shambles.

nathan

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#1244457 22-Feb-2015 21:56

AidanS: Without profit motivated organisations we (IMO) wouldn't have as high of a living standard as we do now. Profit motivation is what forces businesses (and ultimately people) to increase their efficiency and productivity. This usually happens because of innovation into new methods and technologies and hard work. New technology, new innovation and hard work = better quality of living for us all. I've seen many public organisations and Government departments that simply have no "push factor" to be efficient. A single decision may take 3 weeks to make as it has to pass through 5 people from 3 different departments (for an exaggerated example). Who does that benefit? The 5 people that are employed, sure.

If the fire brigade were a privately owned organisation (as an example, IMO I don't think it should be) at least they would increase their efficiency, response times and technology. I don't think the fire service has "improved" much over the last decade or two as there is no "need to". However if they were a profit motivated service (especially if there were more than one organisation competing in the same market) then you would see response times like no other and technology we possibly can't even think of today.

As for the argument "well if you don't pay your fire brigade premium then they'll just watch your house burn down", a) They wouldn't even bother turning up to your address at all if you didn't pay your premium, b) It's your fault for not paying your premium. Just like if you don't pay your electricity bill your power turns off.

Arguing what should and what shouldn't be privatised is extremely subjective and takes into account large amounts of economic debate.

Sorry for the above, off topic discussion, but finally it broadly relates to the core question...

I think any "job" is important to the benefiting of society. Sure a doctor may be directly saving lives on the front line through a publicly funded service but what about the new innovative equipment they're using? There's a damn good chance that equipment was developed due to the competition in the market for health tools. Likely a private company makes said equipment. Should those employees feel like they "aren't helping society" just because their boss is taking a profit? It's because of the motivation to make the profit that the equipment exists in the first place.

In the US if you don't pay your local rates/fire levy etc, and your house catches on fire, the the fire dept turns up, not to put your house out but in case your fire spreads to neighbours (who have paid)

wasabi2k

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#1244471 22-Feb-2015 22:44

I work for a casino.

The majority of the time it is standard corporate IT, but I do work on the gaming system infrastructure and helped roll it out across all our properties.

Now I regularly get asked how I feel about working for a casino. On one hand - I absolutely agree that problem gambling is a major issue and it can and does ruin lives. On the other, that is a minority of customers and the casino is actually far better controlled and policed that a pub with pokies, they take host responsibility seriously. They are in fact legally required to do so. If we want to remove from society anything than can be used to our detriment - better get rid of smoking (which I actually agree with), alcohol, fast cars, fast food etc. etc. Both sides have valid arguments.

Now on a larger scale - I don't believe I am making the world a better place on a daily basis. My job works because I am willing to provide my time and skill to an employer who is willing to pay me an acceptable amount of money. That money enables me to do what I want to do.

I am a decent social citizen - I support a number of worthy causes. I treat my wife and kids well. My job enables me to do that.

Jaxson

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#1244492 22-Feb-2015 23:41

MileHighKiwi: The bureaucracy in govt funded organisations is ridiculous, so much money is wasted and it pisses me off.

Amen to that.

AidanS: If the fire brigade were a privately owned organisation (as an example, IMO I don't think it should be) at least they would increase their efficiency, response times and technology.

Easiest way would be to select only close by local fires to attend, and nothing that was too tricky to extinguish.

wasabi2k: I work for a casino.

I read a funny article recently about how these guys are very proactive in their community, channelling some of their profits into helping with the effects of gambling addiction and alcohol abuse.

At the end of the day, you are lucky if you are sufficiently trained and able to be selective about the type of work you do. One shouldn't take that ability for granted. I wrote here years ago about how living in this country means contributing to more than just the parts of it that you presently use in your day to day life. One shouldn't take for granted what other people are contributing in this aspect, but there are also those in our society who legitimately are not able to contribute as much presently either. The fact that there is a safety net for most is a large part of what makes NZ society what it is, like it or not.

Wade

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#1244502 23-Feb-2015 00:52

I work in the manufacturing sector, I have only ever worked for "for profit" companies ranging form privately owned, to Australian, to truly global internationals. I turn up for work each and every day with the intention of doing the best job i can, no i don't love my job, working is a necessary evil, but it is important i do all i can to help make the company succeed

I tend to look at these things simplistically, how many local jobs does it create and what is it's impact on other local business? To me this is more important than feel good factor of one or the other, knowing that people have jobs and a company supports other companies that create local jobs is important as this helps the greater society

Mark

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#1244547 23-Feb-2015 07:25

richms: No, we should ask those places to operate at a profit, particually health.

This mind me smile ... my imagination produced images of the fire brigade sneaking out lighting fires and then waiting with their credit card machine! :-)

Mark

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#1244548 23-Feb-2015 07:34

nathan:

In the US if you don't pay your local rates/fire levy etc, and your house catches on fire, the the fire dept turns up, not to put your house out but in case your fire spreads to neighbours (who have paid)

I don't think it's the whole of the US (even America isn't that bad yet ... maybe next year ..), just some counties .. like this one!

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