Interesting video about Brexit

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#1581184 27-Jun-2016 15:54

Since David Cameron has indicated he is going in October, and Article 50 will not be invoked until the new PM has been chosen, he has passed the buck to his successor, who may, or may not, invoke A50. Pressure will be on to do either.

Instead of calling another referendum, why don't they just dissolve parliament and hold a general election, with one party(ies) campaigning on Brexit, the other(s) on Bremain? I suppose they won't do that as they will then see themselves out of a job...

networkn

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#1581185 27-Jun-2016 15:57

I honestly believe that if another election was run now, or a referendum, the results being binding, would favour remain by a moderate margin. Those who stayed home expecting remain to win, would be out in force.

SJB

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#1581191 27-Jun-2016 16:08

Rikkitic:

Good points but then how else would you do it? There has to be some kind of line. Every system of self-government involves a social contract, whether enshrined in a constitution or not. Everyone agrees to be bound by a given set of rules. If a significant group breaks this agreement, you have civil unrest and possibly civil war. The assumption here is that everyone agrees that a majority vote decides the issue. The losers may not like it, but they accept it because they accept that this is the rule. My own personal feeling, which is why I said what I did, is that the majority of people may find it easier to accept a 60% win than a 50+% win. That does mean that those favouring the issue have to climb a steeper mountain to get their way, but it also means that if they do win, the losers will probably find a 60% majority easier to accept. I don’t know if this is so, but it’s how I would feel. I think a lot of the angry disappointment now being expressed is because the majority was so slim.

I certainly agree with your point about 60-40 being easier to accept for the losers.

It's a difficult question especially when the vote is about something so emotive. Maybe they should have had a referendum about the referendum rules. Hang on a minute.....

Fred99

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#1581220 27-Jun-2016 16:27

trig42:

Since David Cameron has indicated he is going in October, and Article 50 will not be invoked until the new PM has been chosen, he has passed the buck to his successor, who may, or may not, invoke A50. Pressure will be on to do either.

Pressure is already on. The Euros are wanting article 50 invoked by Tuesday (UK time), Cameron's not going to want to do that, Boris is now claiming that he's going to perform a miracle - the deal he wants to negotiate on leaving the EU will allow free movement for UK citizens in Europe and vice-versa, but will solve the immigration problem that he's now saying wasn't the reason that voters supported brexit in the first place. The important issues were the crazy rules - like the "bent banana rule" which happened to be myth anyway. Boris wants time to negotiate new deals, understandably the Euro's don't want to give it because of the destabilising effect. They're now claiming that they might be able to invoke article 50 without official notice from the UK.

What an utter shambles. Boris clearly didn't expect to be in this position - he doesn't seem to have a clue what comes next.

ubergeeknz

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#1581227 27-Jun-2016 16:32

networkn:

I honestly believe that if another election was run now, or a referendum, the results being binding, would favour remain by a moderate margin. Those who stayed home expecting remain to win, would be out in force.

Along with bregretters who voted leave as a protest, not expecting it to win...

DarthKermit

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#1581239 27-Jun-2016 16:40

Anyone got their crystal ball handy to see WTF things are going to look like in Europe in 1, 5, 10 years' time?

Geektastic

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#1581240 27-Jun-2016 16:47

ubergeeknz:

Important to keep in mind that the referendum was NON-BINDING.

So in actuality, the Government still have to make a decision whether to exit the EU or not. That hasn't happened yet. They could even call another referendum.

IMHO they would be foolish to follow through. They've created a mess anyway, sure, but they will be even worse off for leaving the EU.

Both the French and German heads of state have said Britain is now leaving and cannot be changing her mind so you'd be swimming against the tide. You'd also hamstring your diplomats for aeons because you'd never again be believed if you said you'd leave....

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Geektastic

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#1581242 27-Jun-2016 16:50

Fred99:

Geektastic:

Whenever I try that, it tells me that the post no longer has the right something or other marks and refuses to post it. If you could just delete it like a word processor (some forums you can) then that would be easier.

You need to ensure that there are valid opening and closing quotes as highlighted.

How do you know which ones though? If you quote a long thread and want to shorten it, there can be dozens of those quote things and if you take out the wrong ones, it won't work.

Fred99

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#1581247 27-Jun-2016 17:02

Geektastic:

How do you know which ones though? If you quote a long thread and want to shorten it, there can be dozens of those quote things and if you take out the wrong ones, it won't work.

They are in pairs.

Perhaps Mauricio could open a sticky "sandbox" thread in the geekzone forum - where people can try things out.

DarthKermit

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#1581249 27-Jun-2016 17:04

It's a nesting structure:

(quote)

(/quote)

Will work correctly.

Where as this example below (or similar) won't.

(quote)

(/quote)

(quote)

(/quote)

ubergeeknz

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Vocus

#1581268 27-Jun-2016 17:07

So very off topic guys, this isn't a thread on nesting quotes

DarthKermit

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#1581270 27-Jun-2016 17:14

ubergeeknz:

So very off topic guys, this isn't a thread on nesting quotes

Sorta became relevant when it became a potentially bannable offence to over quota your quotes.

tdgeek

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#1581271 27-Jun-2016 17:20

Rikkitic:

dejadeadnz:
Rikkitic: for the love of whatever, please read the whole of the article before commenting. And do not put words into my mouth and tell me what I believe in, as per Mauricio's early request. Moreover, if you are going to just keep asserting, without further argument, that majoritarianism represents the be all and all of democracy, when I have given you an easy to read article summarising views supporting yours and also arguments by the author suggesting that institutional protection of minorities are required, then what's the point in us continuing?

I did read the article and nothing in it changes my mind. The only thing I might clarify is that I don't think rule by simple majority is a good idea, as evidenced by the Brexit fiasco. How much majority should be required is a matter of debate. Maybe it should be 66%, or maybe 90%, but it shouldn't be 50.000001%. That just creates a very large, very angry minority, as can now be seen. But everyone should have a vote, and they should all be equal.

I agree, but its quite common. US elections are typically 51/49, a poll here I saw a week or two back had National up by one seat if the election was held now at the poll rates.

Maybe if the rights were very right and the left very left, but these days most are around centre.

tdgeek

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#1581275 27-Jun-2016 17:23

ubergeeknz:

Important to keep in mind that the referendum was NON-BINDING.

So in actuality, the Government still have to make a decision whether to exit the EU or not. That hasn't happened yet. They could even call another referendum.

IMHO they would be foolish to follow through. They've created a mess anyway, sure, but they will be even worse off for leaving the EU.

Yes, but them you get the scenario, we won the referendum, so now you want to re run it? Shall we keep doing them until we get the answer the Govt wants?

Bit of a slippery slope. AJobbins article was a good read, everyones a loser, pretty much. Even if this went nowhere, zero changes were made, there is still a lot of losers and losses

tdgeek

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#1581276 27-Jun-2016 17:25

networkn:

ubergeeknz:

Important to keep in mind that the referendum was NON-BINDING.

So in actuality, the Government still have to make a decision whether to exit the EU or not. That hasn't happened yet. They could even call another referendum.

IMHO they would be foolish to follow through. They've created a mess anyway, sure, but they will be even worse off for leaving the EU.

Actually, David Cameron stated they would treat it as binding after the results were in.

He could go back on it, and force another referendum, but most likely wouldn't.

I reckon lets do a referendum to decide if we do another referendum... Its getting that silly out there. Maybe what will help is for someone to say ITS GOING AHEAD, then at least there is direction. Now there is no direction, there are probably a few directions, so everyone on either side over there and in the EU is up in arms.

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