Why do people keep thinking National are doing a great job?

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Ultimate Geek
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#1149805 8-Oct-2014 11:35

MikeAqua: I think national are doing a good job, because from my perspective they are. We have been through some tough times and the ship has stayed afloat. Lots of oth4r countries have hit rock bottom and are continuing to dig. Yes, we have borrowed. The alternatives would have been to cut government expenditure to the bone or massively increase taxes - both of these could have driven the economy into a deep recession.

My direct experience is that, our 4 kids are being educated well by the state, an unwell parent is receiving excellent and timely health care from the state and their condition is improving. The roads are getting better. Quality housing is affordable outside of Auckland, Christchurch and Queenstown.

The problems that have persisted under all governments are still there - stretched health system, child poverty, arguments about education reform, house prices in Auckland. The government will produce figures to say they are getting better. The opposition and NGOs will produce figures to show they are getting worse, and lay blame at the feet of the government.

My read is all governments in my lifetime have been ineffective at solving these chronic problems, but labour taxes and spends more to not solve them.

Imagine what could be achieved if all companies in the world that made > $100 million net profit had to give anything above that level of wealth back to the bottom half of society, the flow on effects for all society would be astounding.

NZCrusader

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#1149875 8-Oct-2014 12:24

MikeAqua:
The problems that have persisted under all governments are still there - stretched health system, child poverty, arguments about education reform, house prices in Auckland. The government will produce figures to say they are getting better. The opposition and NGOs will produce figures to show they are getting worse, and lay blame at the feet of the government.

The thing is, child poverty is not the governments problem. The housing prices... partially... but really the market will do what the market wants to do.

If parents are going to have children, they need to be able to take care and feed them.
Child poverty is just something thats been handed over to the govt and the tax payer to deal with because some parents are useless.

We need tougher laws and punishments (sterilization maybe) for bad parents.

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heylinb4nz

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#1149883 8-Oct-2014 12:32

NZCrusader:
MikeAqua:
The problems that have persisted under all governments are still there - stretched health system, child poverty, arguments about education reform, house prices in Auckland. The government will produce figures to say they are getting better. The opposition and NGOs will produce figures to show they are getting worse, and lay blame at the feet of the government.

The thing is, child poverty is not the governments problem. The housing prices... partially... but really the market will do what the market wants to do.

If parents are going to have children, they need to be able to take care and feed them.
Child poverty is just something thats been handed over to the govt and the tax payer to deal with because some parents are useless.

We need tougher laws and punishments (sterilization maybe) for bad parents.

Bring on a permit to have children...requirements being

- stable job

- specified level on income

- In stable relationship (defacto or married) for minimum of 3 years

- No criminal history of violence or alcohol related offences

Back it up with

- free contraception - free abortions

- severe penalties for having a child without a permit (ie all access to all benefits cut indefinitely for all time)

- financial assistance for first 2 years of childs life (for permit holders)

Sounds a bit draconian, but hey, we have a scary situation in NZ where working couples are busy paying off mortgages and building careers while no hopers are popping out babies (most of whom become the no hopers of the future and repeat the cycle)

MikeAqua

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#1150029 8-Oct-2014 15:17

No company would grow beyond the level that returned that level of net profit. A company that reached that level of net profit would not be able to attract new investment, because there would be no additional return on that new investment.

There would be more, smaller companies.

heylinb4nz:
Imagine what could be achieved if all companies in the world that made > $100 million net profit had to give anything above that level of wealth back to the bottom half of society, the flow on effects for all society would be astounding.

Mike

Asta

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Wannabe Geek

#1150045 8-Oct-2014 15:19

This government will never pay off the national debt. Their creditors wouldn't like it.

heylinb4nz

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#1150046 8-Oct-2014 15:21

MikeAqua: No company would grow beyond the level that returned that level of net profit. A company that reached that level of net profit would not be able to attract new investment, because there would be no additional return on that new investment.

There would be more, smaller companies.

heylinb4nz:
Imagine what could be achieved if all companies in the world that made > $100 million net profit had to give anything above that level of wealth back to the bottom half of society, the flow on effects for all society would be astounding.

Exactly the problem.

That new investment mainly comes from people who already have far to much money, its a perpetuating cycle, as a human race we need to say enough.

The $100 million net profit figure in today money still allows for capital re-investment and growth, it allows people to be sucessful and earn high incomes to live lavish lifestyles, more importantly anything over the $100 million mark is technically reinvested back into society and lifts the standard of living of people.

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heylinb4nz

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#1150048 8-Oct-2014 15:23

Asta: This government will never pay off the national debt. Their creditors wouldn't like it.

Exactly, it is in the bankers best interest that we stay indebted to them, the more we borrow the more control we give and thus the more we are required to borrow...... international \ world banks are pure evil.

MikeAqua

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#1150055 8-Oct-2014 15:43

But child poverty/neglect is at the root of many serious societal problems - crime, unemployment, illiteracy, addiction.

Some of it is attributable to poor luck , some to poor parental choices. Not sure what the government can do about either.

The demographic reality is that low income, low educational achievement and high birth rate are strongly associated. This is not a very promising indicator.

NZCrusader:
The thing is, child poverty is not the governments problem. The housing prices... partially... but really the market will do what the market wants to do.

If parents are going to have children, they need to be able to take care and feed them.
Child poverty is just something thats been handed over to the govt and the tax payer to deal with because some parents are useless.

We need tougher laws and punishments (sterilization maybe) for bad parents.

Mike

Geektastic

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#1150113 8-Oct-2014 16:44

heylinb4nz:
MikeAqua: I think national are doing a good job, because from my perspective they are. We have been through some tough times and the ship has stayed afloat. Lots of oth4r countries have hit rock bottom and are continuing to dig. Yes, we have borrowed. The alternatives would have been to cut government expenditure to the bone or massively increase taxes - both of these could have driven the economy into a deep recession.

My direct experience is that, our 4 kids are being educated well by the state, an unwell parent is receiving excellent and timely health care from the state and their condition is improving. The roads are getting better. Quality housing is affordable outside of Auckland, Christchurch and Queenstown.

The problems that have persisted under all governments are still there - stretched health system, child poverty, arguments about education reform, house prices in Auckland. The government will produce figures to say they are getting better. The opposition and NGOs will produce figures to show they are getting worse, and lay blame at the feet of the government.

My read is all governments in my lifetime have been ineffective at solving these chronic problems, but labour taxes and spends more to not solve them.

Imagine what could be achieved if all companies in the world that made > $100 million net profit had to give anything above that level of wealth back to the bottom half of society, the flow on effects for all society would be astounding.

Imagine how quickly those companies would cease to bother....and get wound up.

Geektastic

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#1150116 8-Oct-2014 16:47

heylinb4nz:
NZCrusader:
MikeAqua:
The problems that have persisted under all governments are still there - stretched health system, child poverty, arguments about education reform, house prices in Auckland. The government will produce figures to say they are getting better. The opposition and NGOs will produce figures to show they are getting worse, and lay blame at the feet of the government.

The thing is, child poverty is not the governments problem. The housing prices... partially... but really the market will do what the market wants to do.

If parents are going to have children, they need to be able to take care and feed them.
Child poverty is just something thats been handed over to the govt and the tax payer to deal with because some parents are useless.

We need tougher laws and punishments (sterilization maybe) for bad parents.

Bring on a permit to have children...requirements being

- stable job

- specified level on income

- In stable relationship (defacto or married) for minimum of 3 years

- No criminal history of violence or alcohol related offences

Back it up with

- free contraception - free abortions

- severe penalties for having a child without a permit (ie all access to all benefits cut indefinitely for all time)

- financial assistance for first 2 years of childs life (for permit holders)

Sounds a bit draconian, but hey, we have a scary situation in NZ where working couples are busy paying off mortgages and building careers while no hopers are popping out babies (most of whom become the no hopers of the future and repeat the cycle)

I'd even go as far as bonuses for voluntary sterilisation.

And add an IQ test to your list of requirements for a permit - minimum score 100.

MikeB4

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#1150117 8-Oct-2014 16:47

heylinb4nz:
MikeAqua: I think national are doing a good job, because from my perspective they are. We have been through some tough times and the ship has stayed afloat. Lots of oth4r countries have hit rock bottom and are continuing to dig. Yes, we have borrowed. The alternatives would have been to cut government expenditure to the bone or massively increase taxes - both of these could have driven the economy into a deep recession.

My direct experience is that, our 4 kids are being educated well by the state, an unwell parent is receiving excellent and timely health care from the state and their condition is improving. The roads are getting better. Quality housing is affordable outside of Auckland, Christchurch and Queenstown.

The problems that have persisted under all governments are still there - stretched health system, child poverty, arguments about education reform, house prices in Auckland. The government will produce figures to say they are getting better. The opposition and NGOs will produce figures to show they are getting worse, and lay blame at the feet of the government.

My read is all governments in my lifetime have been ineffective at solving these chronic problems, but labour taxes and spends more to not solve them.

Imagine what could be achieved if all companies in the world that made > $100 million net profit had to give anything above that level of wealth back to the bottom half of society, the flow on effects for all society would be astounding.

I can imagine it and that thought gives me nightmares.

And the poor would get poorer due to the inevitable financial chaos that would ensue.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1150148 8-Oct-2014 18:34

Don't worry the first thing traditionally passed in new parliament is pay rise.

And nobody would oppose it.

After that, then can talk business.

Aredwood

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#1150338 9-Oct-2014 00:17

Asta: This government will never pay off the national debt. Their creditors wouldn't like it.

It will never get paid off because everyone will say: There are waiting lists for operations - more health spending. Class sizes are too big - more education spending. There is too much traffic congestion - more roads. The govt is running a surplus, they can afford it. In otherwords it is very hard for a govt to make debt repayment first priority when times are good.

kiwitrc

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#1150382 9-Oct-2014 05:37

Geektastic:

And add an IQ test to your list of requirements for a permit - minimum score 100.

Thats a bit harsh, I have met couples with kids who couldn't get over that mark by combining their IQ's.

Geektastic

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#1150402 9-Oct-2014 08:26

kiwitrc:
Geektastic:

And add an IQ test to your list of requirements for a permit - minimum score 100.

Thats a bit harsh, I have met couples with kids who couldn't get over that mark by combining their IQ's.

Why harsh? We hardly want the stupid to be passing on their genes.

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