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#153781 7-Oct-2014 16:43
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I am no politics expert, nor am I an economist.  In fact, I'm not even that intelligent :).

But it annoys me every time I see Bill English saying that their annual budget will be back in surplus soon.  What this means to me is that every year we are spending a lot more than the government makes, and that they planned to do it this way.

Wikipedia shows here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/New_Zealand_overseas_debt_1993-2010.svg/578px-New_Zealand_overseas_debt_1993-2010.svg.png that NZ Government debt has nearly doubled from 25 odd billion to 50 odd billion since 2007.  Every year they borrow a lot more than they make.

Surely it's best practice to take a loan when needed, sure, then pay it off ASAP so you are not stuck paying interest.  If the government doesn't make enough money, then they need to raise taxes.  

NZ already has some of the lowest taxes in the OECD.  See here: http://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/taxing-wages.htm.  Fascinating site.

Why does everyone go on about John Key being a business man and knowing whats best?  Surely the best way to make money is to work hard & pay off debt - not live day to day on your credit card?

Now I'm not saying Labour (or anyone) is the answer.  Labour sat with government debt at 20billion for about 10 years then.  Why cant we work hard, raise taxes, pay off all the debt, then we can be the rich country who lends money to America and makes money off the interest by doing exactly nothing.

/Rant over.

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  #1149288 7-Oct-2014 16:55
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Basically because the public won't vote in any party that proposes to increase taxes.

Cheers - N




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  #1149300 7-Oct-2014 17:13
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Put up tax, cut spending. Which is it. It's easy to spend someone else's money

 
 
 
 


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  #1149301 7-Oct-2014 17:14
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I voted for national and would not change my Vote today

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  #1149312 7-Oct-2014 17:29
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I have no great love for National or John Key, but the alternative of Labour seemed a worse choice to me.




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  #1149343 7-Oct-2014 17:58
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The ironic thing is currency is debt based. New money is only printed in to supply to purchase debt with it.

Secondly, when they print money, or banks loan it out, they don't create the interest used to repay the interest over the principal.

Is a no brainer, a system like that means it's designed to fail unless there's infinity increasing resources that can be farmed or dug up and exported to expand wealth and cover the interest.

Natural resources are getting smaller and the side effects of it on the planet, not just climate change but eco system destruction etc... is on the rise.

Eventually it'll all go bang so enjoy it while you can get something out of it. I woudln't worry about the debt to much, when everything runs away or implodes which it will, booms and busts and transfer of wealth all come around in cycles. If something goes wrong, they just magic up a new saying like quantitative easing or create bailouts to help those with the most money in the world also funded by tax payers. Then the cycle repeats with new jagon, same way of doing things.

The thing is, when the economy is heading to be sluggish again, you can pay down debt as fast as you want and save, however this doesn't keep the economy going... this can also cause a recession and increase the cost of living as demand drops. So I wouldn't worry to much about it. What will be will be. The entire system at the moment is imperfect.

National... well, I didn't vote for them. Most of the politicians in parliment can do their job, including John Key. But major economic decissions are in the relm of banks and party funders not politicians.

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  #1149350 7-Oct-2014 18:04
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Just to quickly add to that: Waiting on the floor for 40 minuts at A&E on Sunday with a friend who was suffering extreme pain from inflammed gall bladder who should have had it out instead of passing out from the extreme pain is causes, is a great sign of why I didn't vote National.

People are so obessed with the dollar that the dollar always comes first. People will be allowed to die before coming up with a new monetary system or don't stop the runaway monetisation of every aspect of life.

My 50c worth, adjusted after inflation.

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  #1149353 7-Oct-2014 18:12
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The election was last month save it for 2017 I think we've had enough politics this year IMHO




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  #1149357 7-Oct-2014 18:14
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kiwirock: Just to quickly add to that: Waiting on the floor for 40 minuts at A&E on Sunday with a friend who was suffering extreme pain from inflammed gall bladder who should have had it out instead of passing out from the extreme pain is causes, is a great sign of why I didn't vote National.

People are so obessed with the dollar that the dollar always comes first. People will be allowed to die before coming up with a new monetary system or don't stop the runaway monetisation of every aspect of life.

My 50c worth, adjusted after inflation.


That statement would be also true under Helen Clark.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  #1149359 7-Oct-2014 18:16
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Talkiet: Basically because the public won't vote in any party that proposes to increase taxes.

Cheers - N


They also won't vote in a party that proposed to cut core services to the extent needed to "balance the books". 
So perhaps it's unreasonable to blame "the government" - when it's the general public who are like turkeys voting for xmas.


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  #1149360 7-Oct-2014 18:16
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I voted for Winston Peters and i wouldnt change that.

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  #1149362 7-Oct-2014 18:18
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The short answer to the question is ....... because they are.




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  #1149394 7-Oct-2014 18:39
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joker97:
kiwirock: Just to quickly add to that: Waiting on the floor for 40 minuts at A&E on Sunday with a friend who was suffering extreme pain from inflammed gall bladder who should have had it out instead of passing out from the extreme pain is causes, is a great sign of why I didn't vote National.

People are so obessed with the dollar that the dollar always comes first. People will be allowed to die before coming up with a new monetary system or don't stop the runaway monetisation of every aspect of life.

My 50c worth, adjusted after inflation.


That statement would be also true under Helen Clark.


Which is why I didn't vote for them either. They wonder why it's hard to engage some people in to voting.

I don't think any of the exsisting parties can make a real difference to the economy. That's the reserve banks job and they usually get the last say. Just when things look good they throw the brakes on with inflation and interest rates. When things cool off, they drop them back down.

So there is a plan/design for the economy to operate within certain boundaries obviously. If you're living costs or income don't keep you somewhere in the middle of that boundary nothing the government try to do will make a huge difference.

John Key is a great public figure and for the most part I prefer him as a leader from all the options currenty available. But I doubt his business sense. When his first words of advice in the 2008 recession was 'save'. In other words, stall the economy more, his millions didn't seem to impressive to me but more of luck investing in the sub prime blow outs he was helping to sell but called just doing his job.

He's had investment in places that made him some good money by becoming prime minister.  There is to much conflict of interst in certain areas I've seen. It was selling off rail which he had shares in, now we have this screwy Talent2 Novapay which has ties with Bank of America, another place Key I think has shares. Since they swollowed up Lynch.

Sorry but there's way to much fingers in the cookie jar with conflict of interests in the National party. They're dollars not people.

But you're right, under Labour it won't change either. Or Greens, or any other parties.

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  #1149396 7-Oct-2014 18:45
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http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/newzealand The doom clock. The Debt is mathematically impossible to pay off.

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  #1149397 7-Oct-2014 18:46
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IIRC Key's shares are managed in a blind trust arrangement so he can't knowingly make decisions that would be in his own interests to do so etc.

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  #1149406 7-Oct-2014 18:59
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Q. Why do people keep thinking National are doing a great job?
A. Because National keep telling us that they are - and a lot of people want to believe them.




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