Police not issuing tickets to unlicensed Maori drivers

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3892 posts

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#1326380 17-Jun-2015 11:18

surfisup1000: Race based policies are becoming more frequent in government policy though. I do not think it is a good thing.

Can you explain why not?

Clearly the current approach has not been working. Maori are way over represented in our jails and so are men.

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Paul1977

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#1326381 17-Jun-2015 11:19

DonGould:
Paul1977: It is being treated differently if one group gets it automatically and another group has to ask for it.

Yes.

...but there is also a difference here, Maori are just over represented.

I'm not sure what your point is here?

Sure, Maori are over represented and something needs to be done about that; but that doesn't change the fact that this guideline by definition is racist. I'm not saying it is maliciously racist, but it is racist none the less.

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MikeB4

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#1326382 17-Jun-2015 11:20

DonGould:
MikeB4: I was given compliance on a ticket for a tyre on the boat trailer that was unsafe due to damage, did not need to ask for it.

Likely you were polite, listened and had a discussion.

I'm sure you'd have got a good fine if you'd just put your 'I'm an arrogant twat' hat on and gone all nato on the officer, like some folk clearly want to do some days.

I just said to the Officer that I had not even noticed, and could have damaged it on the ramp or the unsealed road from the lake. He said show us the new tyre in 28 days and all will be good which of course I did.
I replaced it at the next tyre shop I came to on our trip.

DonGould

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#1326385 17-Jun-2015 11:24

Paul1977: I'm not saying it is maliciously racist, but it is racist none the less.

Thanks. I think I understand your point now.

Yes, you're right. It is race based.

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surfisup1000

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#1326387 17-Jun-2015 11:25

DonGould:

Sorry but I find your comments just offensive.

I think he's made it quite clear that he's accepting they made a mistake by not making a better presentation.

That is just your opinion, and I respect that (unlike you).

To me, this looks like he got caught out and now he's trying to cover up.

All evidence points to this as being race based policy.

Also, you should read this....

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/68630011/the-principle-of-free-speech-cannot-be-overrated

In particular...

"On such threat is a rising tide of offence-taking and indignation, particularly in social media where a discussion can move swiftly and viciously, influencing views and actions."

DonGould

3892 posts

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#1326390 17-Jun-2015 11:31

surfisup1000: That is just your opinion, and I respect that (unlike you).

To me, this looks like he got caught out and now he's trying to cover up.

I'll accept those two comments :)

I do respect your right to your view, I just find it offensive to suggest that the police commissioner is trying to cover up the issue. To me he's attempting to apoloigise and make a better presentation of the issues, but I can see how his comments can be taken in a dimmer light.

I think you're right in the implied suggestion that perhaps 'less is more' and he should have just been more direct with saying "I'm sorry for the words of one of my officers" and left it at that.

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MikeB4

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#1326391 17-Jun-2015 11:33

surfisup1000:
DonGould:

Sorry but I find your comments just offensive.

I think he's made it quite clear that he's accepting they made a mistake by not making a better presentation.

That is just your opinion, and I respect that (unlike you).

To me, this looks like he got caught out and now he's trying to cover up.

All evidence points to this as being race based policy.

Also, you should read this....

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/68630011/the-principle-of-free-speech-cannot-be-overrated

In particular...

"On such threat is a rising tide of offence-taking and indignation, particularly in social media where a discussion can move swiftly and viciously, influencing views and actions."

There is a magnitude of difference between race based policy and racism

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MileHighKiwi

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#1326395 17-Jun-2015 11:35

On one hand I really don't like this, but on the other hand I think fining people who are unlikely to pay is just a waste of time. You only have to watch Road Cops or Police Ten Seven and hear the bros say "add it to the tab" to understand their attitude to fines. The tab gets bigger until they take $10 per week from their benefit.

I actually think the best thing to do is impose mandatory jail sentences, say 7 days for repeated driving without a license.

DonGould

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#1326397 17-Jun-2015 11:38

MileHighKiwi: I actually think the best thing to do is impose mandatory jail sentences, say 7 days for repeated driving without a license.

That's $1,700 a time. I'm happy with that idea as long as you're picking up the tab and not me.

It would make much more sense to simply require them to attend driver training and pay for it.

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MikeB4

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#1326398 17-Jun-2015 11:38

MileHighKiwi: On one hand I really don't like this, but on the other hand I think fining people who are unlikely to pay is just a waste of time. You only have to watch Road Cops or Police Ten Seven and hear the bros say "add it to the tab" to understand their attitude to fines. The tab gets bigger until they take $10 per week from their benefit. I actually think the best thing to do is impose mandatory jail sentences, say 7 days for repeated driving without a license.

Yeah that wont work, lets not add a prison record to make it even harder for them to break the cycle and gain employment.

DonGould

3892 posts

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#1326452 17-Jun-2015 12:10

MikeB4:
MileHighKiwi: On one hand I really don't like this, but on the other hand I think fining people who are unlikely to pay is just a waste of time. You only have to watch Road Cops or Police Ten Seven and hear the bros say "add it to the tab" to understand their attitude to fines. The tab gets bigger until they take $10 per week from their benefit. I actually think the best thing to do is impose mandatory jail sentences, say 7 days for repeated driving without a license.

Yeah that wont work, lets not add a prison record to make it even harder for them to break the cycle and gain employment.

That's another area we need attitude adjustment in. We have to employ people with a record and we have to accept them in our society.

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frankv

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#1326460 17-Jun-2015 12:27

DonGould:
I think he's made it quite clear that he's accepting they made a mistake by not making a better presentation.

I agree with surfisup1000: the Police are spinning it into a mistake in what was written, as opposed to a mistake in policy-making.

The answer is very clearly explained. Maori are over represented so they are attempting to give more attention to the group to bring it back in line with general representation.

I suggest that the reason Maori are over-represented in "road trauma" is NOT specifically because they drive without licenses, but primarily because they are over-represented in the poor, and consequently own and drive cheaper, older, less-reliable, worse-maintained, less-safe cars. Their over-representation amongst unlicensed drivers is a symptom of this, because getting a license has become so expensive.

So, any policy to increase Maori license-holding is going to have little effect on the "road trauma" stats, which was Mike Bush's justification of the policy. Either Mike Bush is remarkably (appallingly!) lacking in information about NZ's social problems, or this is just spin to placate the gullible.

frankv

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#1326464 17-Jun-2015 12:33

DonGould: It would make much more sense to simply require them to attend driver training and pay for it.

I don't understand why NZ schools don't include driving as a part of their curriculum. Virtually every NZer will at some time need to learn to drive. It makes sense to me that our teaching institutions should do this.

DonGould

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#1326465 17-Jun-2015 12:36

frankv:
DonGould: It would make much more sense to simply require them to attend driver training and pay for it.

I don't understand why NZ schools don't include driving as a part of their curriculum. Virtually every NZer will at some time need to learn to drive. It makes sense to me that our teaching institutions should do this.

Because the community doesn't want this.

The NZC states that we teach want the community asks for, wants, needs.

Clearly the community just aren't asking the question.

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scuwp

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#1326468 17-Jun-2015 12:41

Police target resources and activities according to the risk and the need to get positive outcomes all the time. Normally that target is negative based (e.g. surveillance on a gang HQ suspected of drug dealing), this one more preventative and proactive. An honorable desire, but sadly the intent I fear has been lost, or subverted on this occasion.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

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