Police not issuing tickets to unlicensed Maori drivers

Forums › Off topic › Police not issuing tickets to unlicensed Maori drivers

6FIEND

774 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#175096 17-Jun-2015 09:00

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/one-law-all-new-zealanders-anger-over-police-moves-not-fine-unlicensed-maori-6339686

This is unadulterated racism. Pure and simple.

Police say, "it's not an issue based on race" yet the primary determinant factor is the race of the individual.

Police are saying "it's part of their goal to reduce Maori offending".

Having those entrusted with the enforcement of society's rules selectively not applying them to reduce offending is entirely analogous to a situation where international rugby referees might work collaboratively to reduce the domination of the All Black team by not enforcing the "forward pass" rule against their opponents. We have words to describe that kind of behaviour... words like;

Match-fixing.
Corruption.
Fraud.
Malfeasance.

Besides that, it does nothing to reduce the disparity in skill & ability between the teams concerned - it only masks it in the results.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | ... | 12

9120 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#1326264 17-Jun-2015 09:03

It should be one law for all. If they're going to let Maoris off then everyone should get off.

Regards,

Old3eyes

solaybro

628 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#1326267 17-Jun-2015 09:08

I wonder how long it will be until this thread gets out of control and freitasm has to lock it.

Inphinity

2780 posts

Uber Geek

#1326269 17-Jun-2015 09:11

Next they'll be allowed to continue to commit thefts and assaults because of race. Ignoring something doesn't mean it's not happening.

Paul1977

5043 posts

Uber Geek

#1326270 17-Jun-2015 09:12

Brilliant strategy for reducing Maori offending, just don't charge them for some offences. On paper the Maori offending rate drops.

Looking at this particular offense (driving without a license), surely this just sends the message "If you're Maori, don't even bother to worry about getting a license until you've been caught at least once". Surely this is putting other drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians at risk - there is a reason why you need to have a license to drive.

Home: Work:
Home Work

Paul1977

5043 posts

Uber Geek

#1326275 17-Jun-2015 09:18

Also, how much is this "panel" that they are referred to costing the taxpayer? If the panel costs on average $500 per offender for eaxmple, then each offence is effectively costing the taxpayer $900 ($500 for the panel plus $400 in lost revenue from the un-issued ticket).

Home: Work:
Home Work

kiwitrc

4123 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1326276 17-Jun-2015 09:18

solaybro: I wonder how long it will be until this thread gets out of control and freitasm has to lock it.

Shouldn't be long now.

macuser

2120 posts

Uber Geek

#1326286 17-Jun-2015 09:33

I think discretion should be used when policing petty crime, so that a police person does have a chance to warn someone that they need to get their act together soon or else face fines the next time to prevent someone feeling alienated from the law and set on a destructive path.

Though I think it's important that they don't tell anyone that they're allowed to use discretion, because people will take advantage of it - It's better left as a 'Oh man that officer was so nice to let me off with a warning, I guess they care' rather than 'I'm Maori I get a warning don't give me a fine'

Samsung

Shop now on Samsung phones, tablets, TVs and more (affiliate link).

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1326288 17-Jun-2015 09:33

Compliance is a good way to deal with this especially those who have limited fiscal means, it seems pointless to fine someone the money it would take for them to become legal. Give them a chance with compliance, after all if they don't
get their license the fine is issued, it is positive Policing. I prefer to see licensed drivers to getting a pound of flesh.

Edit; it is not racism, anyone can apply for compliance with certain traffic offences.

surfisup1000

5288 posts

Uber Geek

#1326305 17-Jun-2015 09:49

MikeB4:
Edit; it is not racism, anyone can apply for compliance with certain traffic offences.

Nope, you're completely wrong.

This is the police policy (not reworded).....

"all Maori drivers caught without a licence or in breach of their conditions are to be referred for training and not given a ticket"

In what way is this not racism?

Paul1977

5043 posts

Uber Geek

#1326306 17-Jun-2015 09:50

MikeB4: Compliance is a good way to deal with this especially those who have limited fiscal means, it seems pointless to fine someone the money it would take for them to become legal. Give them a chance with compliance, after all if they don't
get their license the fine is issued, it is positive Policing. I prefer to see licensed drivers to getting a pound of flesh.

Edit; it is not racism, anyone can apply for compliance with certain traffic offences.

In some instances I agree, but compliance shouldn't be the default option for one particular group and not others. And in my opinion, certainly not for what is a very clear cut offense.

If some one is driving on an expired license, then sure, give them the benefit of the doubt and give them a chance to renew it. But driving with no license at all? Genuine emergency situations are the only time unlicensed driving fines should be waived.

And it is racism if it is automatic compliance for one race, but a fine for another race (even if they can subsequently apply for compliance).

However it is important to remember, that while I would technically call this "racism", it is not being done through any malice or racist intent. It seems to me that it is just a strategy someone came up with to meet the "reduce Maori offending" mandate.

Home: Work:
Home Work

MikeSkyrme

272 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#1326313 17-Jun-2015 09:58

On the race point, the article states "And police say they have the discretion to do the same for non-Maori drivers, but that's not spelt out in the document."

As a police officer, I would be more concerned about 'what if' though... future headlines such as "Police Release Unlicensed Driver Back Onto Roads To Cause Fatal Accident" will not go down well me thinks...

Michael Skyrme - Instrumentation & Controls

sidefx

3711 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1326314 17-Jun-2015 09:58

surfisup1000:

In what way is this not racism?

I'm not saying I agree with this policy, because I don't, but you should probably look up the definition of racism because this is not "racism"

"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." | Octopus Energy | Sharesies
- Richard Feynman

Jaxson

8042 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1326315 17-Jun-2015 09:59

Paul1977: Brilliant strategy for reducing Maori offending, just don't charge them for some offences. On paper the Maori offending rate drops.

Came here just to write this.

Akin to reducing sickness benefits by moving them to the unemployment benefit.

DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#1326317 17-Jun-2015 10:01

This is a fantastic move by Auckland Police and to be commended.

It's a brave world for the Police.

It's putting the onus back on the Moari community to provide driver education to their children rather than just sucking $400 dollar fines off them.

I do agree with the suggestion that this should be extended to the whole community too, but the difference with the Moari community is that they're not short of money after treaty settlements.

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

frankv

5680 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1326318 17-Jun-2015 10:02

Whilst I agree with the "one rule for all" sentiment, there is a key aspect which hasn't been mentioned in this thread... to avoid a fine, there is a requirement to gain a license within 2 months.

Assuming that the purpose of the driver's license system is to keep untrained (and therefore presumably unsafe) drivers off the road, this discretion seems to me to be a sensible thing.. if the driver can't get a license within two months, then they really shouldn't be driving, and they'll get the $400 fine. OTOH, if the driver is up to license standard, then they're actually already safe & trained... they'll get their license and everything is fine. If they're not up to standard, but do go ahead and get their license. In theory this would be a good thing... we would have replaced an unsafe driver with a safe one... a good outcome, and IMHO well worth the $400. But I expect the reality will be that you'll only need to get a learner's license to avoid the fine. Which actually means that they are an *unsafe* driver who needs supervision.

I also wonder how this applies to people with a license, but not appropriate for the circumstances (e.g. on a learner's, at night, carrying passengers). What would they be expected to do? Upgrade to a full license within 2 months? I suspect that these "guidelines" were the bright idea of someone still living in the 1980s.

Incidentally, did anyone else notice that the (presumably senior) Police officer who wrote those "guidelines" had an appallingly poor grasp of the written language, especially an inability to spell, and presumably (s)he was also incapable of using a spell checker.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | ... | 12