Why do people keep thinking National are doing a great job?

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#1151138 10-Oct-2014 10:31

gzt: This kind of idea gets mentioned in multiple topics. It is not really related to this topic either. Also it is something that some people have a strong reaction to and tends to drag any particular topic off topic and tends to attract godwins.

Either one is not really a good contribution to the discussion.

At this point the only thing worse than seeing posts about this - is seeing the replies ; ).

Possibly you are correct.

Personally I just find it very silly that entire discussions can get stopped as soon as certain subjects are mentioned. It amounts to a form of thought control that seems a bit sinister. Mr Godwin has a lot to answer for.

Mind you, it is possible that it is often misinterpreted as meaning "you can't ever speak about anything that might be related to what Godwins Law is about" rather than what the man himself actually says it is:

"Although deliberately framed as if it were a law of nature or of mathematics, its purpose has always been rhetorical and pedagogical: I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler or to Nazis to think a bit harder about the Holocaust", Godwin has written.

MikeB4

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#1151150 10-Oct-2014 10:35

Geektastic:
gzt: This kind of idea gets mentioned in multiple topics. It is not really related to this topic either. Also it is something that some people have a strong reaction to and tends to drag any particular topic off topic and tends to attract godwins.

Either one is not really a good contribution to the discussion.

At this point the only thing worse than seeing posts about this - is seeing the replies ; ).

Possibly you are correct.

Personally I just find it very silly that entire discussions can get stopped as soon as certain subjects are mentioned. It amounts to a form of thought control that seems a bit sinister. Mr Godwin has a lot to answer for.

Basil knows

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Batman

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#1151195 10-Oct-2014 11:12

is there any way the public can hold any government accountability to their money wasting habits? (note: Helen Clark was called the Prime Money Waster the term she got voted out - wow I last used that to talk Survivor stuff)

like set up a website or something or a watchdog

MikeAqua

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#1151312 10-Oct-2014 13:50

I think you missed my point. If people/firms don't get to keep earnings above a certain threshold, they won't bother making those earnings. With a 100% upper tax rate (which is effectively what you propose), there will be no above threshold income to re-invest back into society.

If an employer gave you the choice of a salary increase (all of which went to the govt as tax) or an extra week of leave, which would you opt for?

heylinb4nz:
MikeAqua: No company would grow beyond the level that returned that level of net profit. A company that reached that level of net profit would not be able to attract new investment, because there would be no additional return on that new investment.

There would be more, smaller companies.

heylinb4nz:
Imagine what could be achieved if all companies in the world that made > $100 million net profit had to give anything above that level of wealth back to the bottom half of society, the flow on effects for all society would be astounding.

Exactly the problem.

That new investment mainly comes from people who already have far to much money, its a perpetuating cycle, as a human race we need to say enough. The $100 million net profit figure in today money still allows for capital re-investment and growth, it allows people to be sucessful and earn high incomes to live lavish lifestyles, more importantly anything over the $100 million mark is technically reinvested back into society and lifts the standard of living of people.

Mike

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#1151340 10-Oct-2014 14:38

MikeAqua: I think you missed my point. If people/firms don't get to keep earnings above a certain threshold, they won't bother making those earnings. With a 100% upper tax rate (which is effectively what you propose), there will be no above threshold income to re-invest back into society.

In New Zealand:
During World War II the top marginal tax rate was almost 100% (inclusive of social security and special war taxes).
In the 1980s it was 66%.
It is now 33%.

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MikeB4

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#1151346 10-Oct-2014 14:49

Sideface:
MikeAqua: I think you missed my point. If people/firms don't get to keep earnings above a certain threshold, they won't bother making those earnings. With a 100% upper tax rate (which is effectively what you propose), there will be no above threshold income to re-invest back into society.

In New Zealand:
During World War II the top marginal tax rate was almost 100% (inclusive of social security and special war taxes).
In the 1980s it was 66%.
It is now 33%.

33% is where it should be.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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MileHighKiwi

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#1151365 10-Oct-2014 15:09

I think of this Ronald Regan quote when people talk about the government...

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

Kind of sums it up for me; doesn't matter who is in charge, you're responsible for making the most of your situation. I think National are doing a good job...but then I'm doing a good job myself and I don't need the govt to make things better for me.

Geektastic

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#1151368 10-Oct-2014 15:19

KiwiNZ:
Sideface:
MikeAqua: I think you missed my point. If people/firms don't get to keep earnings above a certain threshold, they won't bother making those earnings. With a 100% upper tax rate (which is effectively what you propose), there will be no above threshold income to re-invest back into society.

In New Zealand:
During World War II the top marginal tax rate was almost 100% (inclusive of social security and special war taxes).
In the 1980s it was 66%.
It is now 33%.

33% is where it should be.

10% is where it should be, but I will definitely prefer 33% to anything higher than 33%!

Geese

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#1151478 10-Oct-2014 18:47

Geektastic: I do not think any fascist regimes have ever read any of my statements....

Did someone just say my name??

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#1151482 10-Oct-2014 18:59

*crawls under his desk

VeryWoolly

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#1151541 10-Oct-2014 20:59

Why do people keep thinking National are doing a great job?

Because they are doing a great job at managing perception. The same way placebos work.

If voting made a difference would it be made illegal?

What is the difference between legal and lawful?

What factual evidence is there, that you have to be subservient to another? (divine right of kings?)

Most humans operate like herds.

Critical thinking is not taught in most schools.

Example:
Cigarettes - Torches of Freedom (Edward Bernays)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pyyP2chM8k

Vietnam - Gulf of Tonkin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Wl2M4yLkY

Having a Red/Blue team approach is the easiest way of controlling the public.

Framing the debate so that other issues are not considered.

Distraction eg twerking/X-factor/dancing

To control a nation you need people to enforce their own enforcement.

E.g. neighbors will ridicule you for not voting.

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Batman

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#1151546 10-Oct-2014 21:10

complex intricately linked things are not meant to be simplified, and cannot be ...

that viewpoint is too simple ... I used to think that way when I was a youth. that's why youthfulness is a strong force ... look at all the protesters in HK, all uni students or recent uni students ... I am too old to think like that now :D

it's like asking is the ABs going to win the next RWC? a yes / no because X / Y is way to simplistic ...

ajw

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#1151553 10-Oct-2014 21:17

Or you could look at this another way. Supposedly 800,000 or so eligible voters did not vote in the last two elections. Perhaps if more of these people had voted the outcome could have been very different.