Despair - Why aren't we protecting our kids!

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#1567595 8-Jun-2016 06:56

Rikkitic:

More to the point, what serious answers does anyone have to change this? I mean serious, realistic, payable, politically acceptable answers that wouldn't get us banned as international pariahs. In other words, you can't just say sterilise everyone who doesn't have a job or allow dairy owners to shoot on sight. What do you do to turn things around?

This is happening in a sector of society that needs to be identified and recognised before anything meaningful can be done. The Maori and Pacific Islanders community, until we can come out and say that this is the case without fear of being called out for being politically incorrect we are not going to even start to address the problem. The leaders of these communities need to be more vocal about what is happening, the extended families of these children need to stand up and say no more. It is all very well to wail and cry in grief when it happens but to continue with life as normal after and not change is criminal.

There is a case in the high court this week from Pukekohe where a 2 year old was murdered, I know a person who is having to sit through the case (not a juror) and these people are sub human. Some of what happened is just horrific, and the lack of care, responsibility or humanity is just disheartening.

Murder of a child should be a mandatory death penalty.

Fred99

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#1567664 8-Jun-2016 08:46

Geektastic:

MikeB4:

BarTender:

Fred99:

There have been changes in the education system - but every time there's a move away from failure-based assessment to skills-based, there's massive kick-back from those who have vested interests in maintaining the status quo.

Said someone else who has never worked in education.

The problem is our current education system works extremely well.

It's society around it that's dismally failing especially in lower decile areas and schools are just left to pick up the pieces and do the best they can do.

Instead of wasting money on patrol boats we cannot use, Armoured vehicles we have not used, transport aircraft we don't need the funds could be invested in education. The Globe master currently under consideration tho replace the C130's cost $US200,000,000+ each. I am sure the average teacher could find far better uses for that money.

I have said before that I think the forces here would be better re-organised into something similar to either the US Coastguard or the US Marines - probably the former. Maintaining international military capability is really not necessary for us.

We have a role to play in international peace-keeping, disaster relief etc.

NZ spend on military as % of GDP is relatively small. (1.1%, vs Australia 1.8%, UK 2.0%, US 3.5%).

The argument that we should stop spending money on bombs and warplanes and spend it on schools should be left where it belongs - back in the 1960s.

Fred99

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#1567668 8-Jun-2016 08:53

dickytim:

Murder of a child should be a mandatory death penalty.

Of course - the usual answer - harsher penalties.

If that worked, then the USA wouldn't have the highest rate of child murders in the world falling behind behind Nigeria, Brazil, India, Congo, Mexico and Ethiopia.

Geektastic

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#1567674 8-Jun-2016 09:00

Fred99:

Geektastic:

MikeB4:

BarTender:

Fred99:

There have been changes in the education system - but every time there's a move away from failure-based assessment to skills-based, there's massive kick-back from those who have vested interests in maintaining the status quo.

Said someone else who has never worked in education.

The problem is our current education system works extremely well.

It's society around it that's dismally failing especially in lower decile areas and schools are just left to pick up the pieces and do the best they can do.

Instead of wasting money on patrol boats we cannot use, Armoured vehicles we have not used, transport aircraft we don't need the funds could be invested in education. The Globe master currently under consideration tho replace the C130's cost $US200,000,000+ each. I am sure the average teacher could find far better uses for that money.

I have said before that I think the forces here would be better re-organised into something similar to either the US Coastguard or the US Marines - probably the former. Maintaining international military capability is really not necessary for us.

We have a role to play in international peace-keeping, disaster relief etc.

NZ spend on military as % of GDP is relatively small. (1.1%, vs Australia 1.8%, UK 2.0%, US 3.5%).

The argument that we should stop spending money on bombs and warplanes and spend it on schools should be left where it belongs - back in the 1960s.

We need not play that role. We are tantamount to a small village when compared to the US or other NATO countries. Any contribution we make is hardly indispensable.

Better to create a joint force dedicated to defence of NZ, fisheries protection, maritime law enforcement and professional SAR.

Geektastic

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#1567675 8-Jun-2016 09:02

Fred99:

dickytim:

Murder of a child should be a mandatory death penalty.

Of course - the usual answer - harsher penalties.

If that worked, then the USA wouldn't have the highest rate of child murders in the world falling behind behind Nigeria, Brazil, India, Congo, Mexico and Ethiopia.

At least we will slowly be deleting some of those we don't need.

dickytim

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#1567680 8-Jun-2016 09:08

Fred99:
dickytim:

Murder of a child should be a mandatory death penalty.

Of course - the usual answer - harsher penalties.

If that worked, then the USA wouldn't have the highest rate of child murders in the world falling behind behind Nigeria, Brazil, India, Congo, Mexico and Ethiopia.

Get down to the high court today and tell me these scum don't need to die.

Fred99

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#1567686 8-Jun-2016 09:12

Geektastic:

Fred99:

dickytim:

Murder of a child should be a mandatory death penalty.

Of course - the usual answer - harsher penalties.

If that worked, then the USA wouldn't have the highest rate of child murders in the world falling behind behind Nigeria, Brazil, India, Congo, Mexico and Ethiopia.

At least we will slowly be deleting some of those we don't need.

That's a terrific thought - get the government to extinguish "those we don't need".

Enough of this silly talk. Apart from my feelings about the death penalty, let alone a "mandatory" death penalty, there's an aspect to child murder / infanticide covered by section 178 of the crimes act. It's bad enough as it is - last thing I'd want to see is court cases in front of a judge with black cap at the ready, and baying crowds outside the courtroom.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Fred99

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#1567688 8-Jun-2016 09:15

dickytim:
Fred99:

dickytim:

Murder of a child should be a mandatory death penalty.

Of course - the usual answer - harsher penalties.

If that worked, then the USA wouldn't have the highest rate of child murders in the world falling behind behind Nigeria, Brazil, India, Congo, Mexico and Ethiopia.

Get down to the high court today and tell me these scum don't need to die.

If you feel so strongly about that - you go and volunteer to be a hangman.

Expecting government to do it for you is cowardly.

Fred99

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#1567700 8-Jun-2016 09:24

Geektastic:

Fred99:

Geektastic:

MikeB4:

BarTender:

Fred99:

There have been changes in the education system - but every time there's a move away from failure-based assessment to skills-based, there's massive kick-back from those who have vested interests in maintaining the status quo.

Said someone else who has never worked in education.

The problem is our current education system works extremely well.

It's society around it that's dismally failing especially in lower decile areas and schools are just left to pick up the pieces and do the best they can do.

Instead of wasting money on patrol boats we cannot use, Armoured vehicles we have not used, transport aircraft we don't need the funds could be invested in education. The Globe master currently under consideration tho replace the C130's cost $US200,000,000+ each. I am sure the average teacher could find far better uses for that money.

I have said before that I think the forces here would be better re-organised into something similar to either the US Coastguard or the US Marines - probably the former. Maintaining international military capability is really not necessary for us.

We have a role to play in international peace-keeping, disaster relief etc.

NZ spend on military as % of GDP is relatively small. (1.1%, vs Australia 1.8%, UK 2.0%, US 3.5%).

The argument that we should stop spending money on bombs and warplanes and spend it on schools should be left where it belongs - back in the 1960s.

We need not play that role. We are tantamount to a small village when compared to the US or other NATO countries. Any contribution we make is hardly indispensable.

Better to create a joint force dedicated to defence of NZ, fisheries protection, maritime law enforcement and professional SAR.

We do need to play that role - for reasons of maintaining diplomatic relations with other countries as well as for humanitarian reasons. You're coming across with an opinion of someone who'd cross the street rather then help a victim of crime, because of the personal cost or inconvenience to you.

gzt

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#1567701 8-Jun-2016 09:28

Defence/education is another topic. It is not bringing any light to this one.

MikeB4

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#1567705 8-Jun-2016 09:35

Fred99:

Geektastic:

MikeB4:

BarTender:

Fred99:

There have been changes in the education system - but every time there's a move away from failure-based assessment to skills-based, there's massive kick-back from those who have vested interests in maintaining the status quo.

Said someone else who has never worked in education.

The problem is our current education system works extremely well.

It's society around it that's dismally failing especially in lower decile areas and schools are just left to pick up the pieces and do the best they can do.

Instead of wasting money on patrol boats we cannot use, Armoured vehicles we have not used, transport aircraft we don't need the funds could be invested in education. The Globe master currently under consideration tho replace the C130's cost $US200,000,000+ each. I am sure the average teacher could find far better uses for that money.

I have said before that I think the forces here would be better re-organised into something similar to either the US Coastguard or the US Marines - probably the former. Maintaining international military capability is really not necessary for us.

We have a role to play in international peace-keeping, disaster relief etc.

NZ spend on military as % of GDP is relatively small. (1.1%, vs Australia 1.8%, UK 2.0%, US 3.5%).

The argument that we should stop spending money on bombs and warplanes and spend it on schools should be left where it belongs - back in the 1960s.

I am not saying we should stop buying I am saying we should stop wasting. The Patrol boats that are not suitable for our waters that have not left port since 2012, the majority of the 110 LAV's that have never been used and the ones being used are not suitable for our purpose and constantly get stuck or broken down. The proposed purchase of Globemaster transport aircraft at over $US200,000,000 each when there is a suitable alternative the C130J Super Hercules at circa $US64,000,000 each. The Pinzgauer Transports which are not suitable and have been a disaster.

MikeB4

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#1567708 8-Jun-2016 09:36

gzt: Defence/education is another topic. It is not bringing any light to this one.

education is very relevant to this topic

Fred99

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#1567716 8-Jun-2016 09:46

gzt: Defence/education is another topic. It is not bringing any light to this one.

(spend on) defense was brought up as a tired old argument about funding levels.

Education is on topic. I don't happen to believe that school funding (or lack of) is related to child violence rates. I also don't believe that in most cases violence against children happens because parents don't love their kids, don't want to care for them, etc.

Lots of opinions expressed that "it's complicated" (and I agree - it is).

IMO one of the complications is instinctive human behaviour when under stress.

Suggested above is that it's a Maori & Pacific Island problem. It's worse in America - but not many Maori and Pacifica peoples there - so nailing it down to specifics of "culture" (rather than culture of society in general) is not going to lead to the answer.

MikeB4

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#1567728 8-Jun-2016 10:00

Fred99:

gzt: Defence/education is another topic. It is not bringing any light to this one.

(spend on) defense was brought up as a tired old argument about funding levels.

Education is on topic. I don't happen to believe that school funding (or lack of) is related to child violence rates. I also don't believe that in most cases violence against children happens because parents don't love their kids, don't want to care for them, etc.

Lots of opinions expressed that "it's complicated" (and I agree - it is).

IMO one of the complications is instinctive human behaviour when under stress.

Suggested above is that it's a Maori & Pacific Island problem. It's worse in America - but not many Maori and Pacifica peoples there - so nailing it down to specifics of "culture" (rather than culture of society in general) is not going to lead to the answer.

The wasted spending is relevant and not a "tired old argument" If the Government wastes money in one area it directly affects funding in another. There is no bottomless pool of funds available so when hundreds of millions are wasted

it has a affect on all other expenditure including the budget to solve the issue being discussed here.

I am in favour of an effective sensible Defense Force not the white elephant we currently have and the proposed purchase of new white elephants.

Rikkitic

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#1567731 8-Jun-2016 10:05

Create poverty, lack of opportunity, hopelessness, you create violence, brutality and despair. It is not about money, but in one sense it is. People have to be able to see a way out. Towns in decay tend to create residents in decay. People lose their ability to care. I don't think that is specific to any cultural group, but it happens most to the one on the bottom. Unfortunately, the culture on top that does not have that problem tends to blame the victims so the cycle continues.

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