Americas Cup Live Stream

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DravidDavid

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#902730 25-Sep-2013 22:14

TVNZ live stream is terrible when there is a big race on. As soon as they announce the winds are too high though, it's fine of course! Don't even bother tomorrow, everyone will be watching.

http://www.youtube.com/AmericasCup

I watch the American YouTube live stream. It is HD and I can actually watch it without any stuttering at all. It also caches what happened before the race, so if I catch it 20 minutes in, I can re-wind to the start. The Americans are also a lot better with commentary. Easier to listen to and much to my surprise, it is not as lop sided as I thought it might have been.

ETNZ made some huge mistakes, but I think we need to continue our support! All the negative energy is blocking all the good wind, haha!

Fred99

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#902733 25-Sep-2013 22:22

networkn:
Fred99:
tdgeek: I disagree. Boats are not the issue and while I hate the chokers label, I do feel it applies here . A defensive tack was yet another error . They delayed the matching tack and rolled past, another tactical error

The "defensive tack" was the only viable option. ETNZ came around the bottom mark well ahead, OR followed. One very short beat and OR had climbed up and all over us - which was absolutely and indisputably from a huge advantage in boat speed. If ETNZ carried on without tacking in front, then next cross, OR would have had starboard (99% we would have been dead in the water - tacking in front of them was our only chance to defend - apart from praying to huey)
You can call it a "choke" or whatever if you don't like that term - but you're wrong. Race 2 today OR had a huge speed advantage - they gained over a minute on that upwind leg.
Too many armchair experts who have never been on the water (or went on a race as ballast once) making uninformed judgments and putting blame for this on NZ "choking".
It makes me ashamed to think of how DB and all the ETNZ crew might be treated "back home" if/when we lose this.

ETNZ have made HUGE tactical errors by their OWN admission, or do you profess to know more than them? They have lost the start so many times. Things like having the code zero out when they shouldn't have and at LEAST a half dozen serious mistakes. Two penalties in the start box and DB admitting on multiple occasions he has been half asleep on the starts etc.

I'd like to know if you can tell me in race two today when they approached the third mark why they tacked again before rounding it? Neither sets of commentators (including the much more Knowledgeable American ones had the slightest idea.

As many of our losses in the last 6 races have been due to mistakes as much as Oracles superior boat speed etc..

Just for the record I am normally am extremely staunch when it comes to supporting our teams even when they lose, but to lose an advantage the size of the one we had against Oracle defies belief.

ER have admitted making tactical mistakes - sure. The worst (IMO) was race one start today, and for sure, IMO having the code 1 up at the start was in hindsight not a good move (though OR's ability to radically out-accelerate ETNZ may have been underestimated at that point, so they probably thought it was worth the risk to get to the first mark clear, unfurl the headsail and hopefully sail clear of OR)
Put yourself in their shoes - and ask yourself if you'd admit - at this or any recent stage - "we have the slower boat".
Losing one or two from tactical mistakes is credible, 7 in a row from sitting on an 8:1 advantage *after changes* really isn't.
As for the third mark in race 2 today - my eyes had rolled into the back of my head long before that as we were so far behind (because of sheer upwind boat speed), a win for ETNZ wasn't even a wild dream. Act of desperation perhaps? There was nothing to lose.

tdgeek

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#902738 25-Sep-2013 22:37

I disagree. I have sailed but in this elite class, clearly not. As stated, the first tack in race 2 was defensive. Why?

In past races when we lost the start due to Spithills guile or our mistakes, we made ground despite 2nd choice air or current. When finally winning a start so we tack away ? Why? Gave an opportunity for the opposition to tack away also, LATER after they used the known and expected boat speed (as has not yet tacked) to roll past us. Cannot understand that We were solid in disadvantaged air/current, yet we are in front and tack?

tdgeek

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#902741 25-Sep-2013 22:40

And I do not believe that boat speed is an issue, its guile, tactics and skill under pressure which has left DB wanting I am sorry to say

networkn

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#902852 26-Sep-2013 08:52

Well as negative as I've been, I couldn't fault ETNZ today, they raced the best they could and were beaten by a faster boat on the day. Congratulations to Oracle for the biggest fight back in Sporting History.

tdgeek

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#902859 26-Sep-2013 08:54

networkn: Well as negative as I've been, I couldn't fault ETNZ today, they raced the best they could and were beaten by a faster boat on the day. Congratulations to Oracle for the biggest fight back in Sporting History.

Well said, ditto

old3eyes

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#902872 26-Sep-2013 09:03

networkn: Well as negative as I've been, I couldn't fault ETNZ today, they raced the best they could and were beaten by a faster boat on the day. Congratulations to Oracle for the biggest fight back in Sporting History.

Yep . Agreed..

Regards,

Old3eyes

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mattwnz

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#903122 26-Sep-2013 14:45

tdgeek: And I do not believe that boat speed is an issue, its guile, tactics and skill under pressure which has left DB wanting I am sorry to say

I think that was proven wrong today once and for all. Their boat was no doubt faster as the NZers raced as well as they could and I don't think many people would dispute that now . The yanks boat had motorised foils so it meant they could get up onto their foils faster.

Oblivian

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#903127 26-Sep-2013 14:52

mattwnz:
tdgeek: And I do not believe that boat speed is an issue, its guile, tactics and skill under pressure which has left DB wanting I am sorry to say

I think that was proven wrong today once and for all. Their boat was no doubt faster as the NZers raced as well as they could and I don't think many people would dispute that now . The yanks boat had motorised foils so it meant they could get up onto their foils faster.

heheeh I recall reading this somewhere earlier on.. where was it, ahh yes page 2 *cough* ;)

Oblivian: I put it down to the free practice from the last few cancelled days they have had after the first 4 races were under the hat.
They (oracle.. not team 2xUSA members) were the worst of the 2 teams in performance and accuracy at the start. And boy did it show.
We had a better low wind boat, they did not.
A flight of 30 boat engineers and a few $400k foils later, they have a faster boat in a broader range of winds now and improved on their crew skills greatly. Quite simple. Money and practice talks.
Look at the first races (or before they started even). You KNEW oracle were fast, but not how fast leading up to the matchraces as they did not complete the LV like we had under the hat.
We were the first to round a mark/jibe on the foils (then submarine and improve it further after a day of practice) Oracle soon caught on and now do the same. We were first to foil upwind - The boats were matched for downwin, and we blitzed them upwind in light stuff
Some more adjustments and those engineers visit.. they are even more matched and do the same... unless the wind comes up.

networkn

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#903132 26-Sep-2013 14:56

As annoyed as I was at ETNZ for their capitulation, seeing a man like Dean Barker unable to hold back tears really made me feel for him. The man has been away from his family for 80%+ of the last 4 years, and the personal sacrifices by him his team and their families is without parallel. The whole thing would be a 100x worse for them than us.

I found this :

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11130395

I'd be interested to know if there was an avenue to double check if the automatic foiling system oracle used fell within the rules or if that has already been 100% vetted.

Larry Ellison and Jimmy Spithall were gracious.

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