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Tel69
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Topic # 111117 24-Oct-2012 19:02
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Hi all,

I've had an interesting couple of weeks.
It first started with an e-mail from Sony Entertainment Network saying the e-mail address associated with my account had been changed to a hotmail addy.
"Interesting" would be one way I put it. Just a but more colourful.
I will say now, I knew what happened, my son had given someone my account login details and password.
Yes, silly as it is, he initially used my account as he was too young to sign up to Sony when he first needed to, such is life, I can't change that now.

So I set about sorting out the account with Sony and they were great and responsive. (I won't go into the other talk with the bank about getting a monitor put on my credit card even though I knew I'd not stored it with Sony, lets say their security record made me think it was a good thing to do).

Fast forward to today, I have my Sony account back under my control and I requested from Sony a list of IP addresses that attempted/did access my account for the last 3 weeks, and you guessed it they said they could not do it because of privacy concerns. Ummmm, sorry but What the heck? You can't tell me things you log about my own account?

So I ask them to escelate it and asked for contact details for their privacy officer. Yup, no idea at all and I eventually got a snail mail address.
The privacy act covers this as follows.

"Principle 6 of the Privacy Act gives you the right to request access to any personal information which Sony hold about you. If Sony wished to withhold any of the personal information you have requested the may do so only if there is an appropriate withholding ground from sections 27- 29 of the Privacy Act and Sony must explain their grounds to you if they do in fact withhold any of the information.
Section 23 of the Act requires Sony to have appointed their own Privacy Officer and if you have any issues you could contact their Privacy Officer to discuss your access request."

The interesting question here is "Is my account information and personal information Sony hold about me the same thing?"
I'd say yes, because it is still my account and run by me even though, (now in the past), I have let my son use it so he didn't lose his medals, awards etc....

Thoughts?

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mjb

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  Reply # 705867 24-Oct-2012 19:16
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To be perfectly honest, giving you a list of IP addresses is a little more than just information about you - it's about other people. They may have done wrong, but you're not the person to follow that up.




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Tel69
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  Reply # 705874 24-Oct-2012 19:30
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mjb: To be perfectly honest, giving you a list of IP addresses is a little more than just information about you - it's about other people. They may have done wrong, but you're not the person to follow that up.


I can understand your thoughts, However we all know Sony won't follow it up and your saying I should not follow up about who accessed my account if I can get an idea of where they are?
Why should I not follow it up and get as much information as I can about what happened?


 
 
 
 


gzt

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  Reply # 705875 24-Oct-2012 19:33
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Sharing a user name and password was a bad decision.

How will help if Sony provides you with IP addresses?

In any case Sony gave you an address to contact as they are required to do and that is clearly the next step if you want to pursue this further.



Tel69
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  Reply # 705892 24-Oct-2012 20:01
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gzt: Sharing a user name and password was a bad decision.

How will help if Sony provides you with IP addresses?

In any case Sony gave you an address to contact as they are required to do and that is clearly the next step if you want to pursue this further.


Yes agreed, Sony have given me an address to follow it up with if I want to persue it. Great on them doing it, also continuing to let my son use my Sony account after they were old enough to sign up was a VERY bad decision. I'm not denying any of those.

I was being a nice dad and letting them keep their medals and achivements and it has worked well for 3-4 odd years.
Either way, a stupid decision on my part, and it has been rectified.

IP address will indeed provide me some very valuable information I can use.
More the point, in this situation considering it is my account I think I should be able to access information about my account.
This is why I put it in the off topics forum. :D

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  Reply # 705908 24-Oct-2012 20:36
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I agree, there is no reason to withhold personal information from an account holder.

My next course of action would be a formal letter to Sony requesting all personal information they hold on record for you including IP addresses used to access your account.

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  Reply # 705913 24-Oct-2012 20:44
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Tel69:
gzt: Sharing a user name and password was a bad decision.

How will help if Sony provides you with IP addresses?

In any case Sony gave you an address to contact as they are required to do and that is clearly the next step if you want to pursue this further.


Yes agreed, Sony have given me an address to follow it up with if I want to persue it. Great on them doing it, also continuing to let my son use my Sony account after they were old enough to sign up was a VERY bad decision. I'm not denying any of those.

I was being a nice dad and letting them keep their medals and achivements and it has worked well for 3-4 odd years.
Either way, a stupid decision on my part, and it has been rectified.

IP address will indeed provide me some very valuable information I can use.
More the point, in this situation considering it is my account I think I should be able to access information about my account.
This is why I put it in the off topics forum. :D


But IP addresses may be personally identifiable information about other people, which means under the Privacy Act they may not share it with you.  I agree with Sony on this point.  If the information would be of use to you ask you claim, then that means that the information can be used to identify other people.  If there is an investigation to be done, it's the responsibility of Sony and/or the authorities, not you.  Giving you the information so you can take the law into your own hands is illegal.

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  Reply # 705942 24-Oct-2012 21:17
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Kyanar: But IP addresses may be personally identifiable information about other people, which means under the Privacy Act they may not share it with you.  I agree with Sony on this point.  If the information would be of use to you ask you claim, then that means that the information can be used to identify other people.  If there is an investigation to be done, it's the responsibility of Sony and/or the authorities, not you.  Giving you the information so you can take the law into your own hands is illegal.


100% agree, which is exactly what I said above.




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Tel69
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  Reply # 705986 24-Oct-2012 21:58
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Kyanar:
Tel69:
gzt: Sharing a user name and password was a bad decision.

How will help if Sony provides you with IP addresses?

In any case Sony gave you an address to contact as they are required to do and that is clearly the next step if you want to pursue this further.


Yes agreed, Sony have given me an address to follow it up with if I want to persue it. Great on them doing it, also continuing to let my son use my Sony account after they were old enough to sign up was a VERY bad decision. I'm not denying any of those.

I was being a nice dad and letting them keep their medals and achivements and it has worked well for 3-4 odd years.
Either way, a stupid decision on my part, and it has been rectified.

IP address will indeed provide me some very valuable information I can use.
More the point, in this situation considering it is my account I think I should be able to access information about my account.
This is why I put it in the off topics forum. :D


But IP addresses may be personally identifiable information about other people, which means under the Privacy Act they may not share it with you. I agree with Sony on this point. If the information would be of use to you ask you claim, then that means that the information can be used to identify other people. If there is an investigation to be done, it's the responsibility of Sony and/or the authorities, not you. Giving you the information so you can take the law into your own hands is illegal.


How is it illegal?
The Privacy Act states quite clearly the exceptions to the rule.
There is only one where I might fall short on which is the under the age of 16 rule.

Neither Sony or myself have enough information to know that to be applicable, BUT if Sony do for some reason know that they still have to provide the information but provide a reason why they have excluded some of what I requested.
IP addresses being personally identifiable?

Thats a debate going into RIAA, Rianz, and the whole "skynet" law as it is called in the media.
Is an IP address something you can work off?
It seems they can, why not me?
I have identified something wrong, I am asking about information about my own account.
Why can I not get that information? (I'm not talking to ISP's just the company I hold my account with wanting information about my account).

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  Reply # 705995 24-Oct-2012 22:04
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  Reply # 706056 25-Oct-2012 06:37
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I agree with others, the IP information is something Sony cannot give you as it is not YOUR information it is information about someone else. However moving on to the next step even if you got the IP it is not going to help you as although it will tell you what ISP the person uses the ISP is legally bound not to tell you who's IP it is (or was at the time). The most you could use it for is to let the police know so they could investigate.







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Tel69
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  Reply # 706476 25-Oct-2012 19:04
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So based on what is being said information can only be given when it is about me.
However I use a VPN and network traffic is proxied through it so Sony actually have no idea what is me or not.
I can sign in from NZ, USA, UK, Russia, where-ever.
They would not be able to differentiate between my son over here or anyone else anywhere else just based on IP.
They could look at the time of the "compromise" of the account and say, from here until we locked it is someone else, BUT they don't know it.

Following this discussion my account details because they are not actually me using it would mean under the privacy act I can't access that information. However I disagree. To take it to exstreams, my wife borrows my money machine card when I'm asleep because I worked late, and uses it. The bank don't know who actually used it, but I will have access to the information that occured on my account because it was my card (username) and my pin (password) even though I had no idea it happened.

Some of you seem to think I'm on a vengance thing, and want to rain down terror on this person. not at all.
We all know there is no way an IP address in itself is personally identifiable.
Just think of flats, free wireless hotspots, etc....
For me wanting to know this information it is more companies using the privacy act incorrectly.
Without ISP's to pin it down IP information is generally irrelevant. We all know ISP's won't give that information out without the police being involved or the such.

So given that exactly how does it breach the privacy act (especially since Sony have no idea at all where my son signs in from each day when they are over here)

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