SMC save my christmas

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Donzac

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#112551 12-Dec-2012 12:13

For a number of reasons I have suddenly discovered I'm going to be dead broke this Christmas and I would like your advice on my plan to make some money to tide me over until I start back at work.

My idea is to go round the top of the North Island, during the holiday period and hold competitions to find out who is the fittest, and brightest, in each area. I came up with the idea, and the way of implementing it yonks ago but until now have never been motivated enough to implement the idea. Ahhh sweet, sweet poverty...

Any thoughts on the following would be appreciated.

How to get a playing area at each location(I need about half a football field, to hold the contests, and the rugby clubs I contacted require it to go through their committee and by the time that happens the holidays will be over)
How much to charge(10 bucks adults five dollars kids)
How to promote the contests.
(I'm thinking flyers and holding free mini contests on the day preceding a contest)
How to find an intelligent assistant at each location.

TIA for any advice

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#731295 12-Dec-2012 12:21

How are you going to afford prizes? If you do offer prizes you will need a permit from the Department of Internal Affairs. Using sports fields will require the consent of their owners, which could involve permits and payment of fees. Advertising costs money. Any sporting/fitness event must have health and safety plans in place - this is another likely cost as you will need St John's to be in attendance.

Good luck with getting this off the ground. In my experience sporting-type events need a minimum of six months planning and usually more than one organiser to get everything in place.

gzt

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#731383 12-Dec-2012 13:43

Expecting to do this from scratch with no experience running events like this is unrealistic. At the very least you need to start by prototyping the event and ironing out any issues and adjusting the program for maximum enjoyment of the participants. I doubt there is enough time for that before the xmas period. An emphasis on competition from the beginning may not be the best way to do that. Sounds like a fun holiday activity for kids and adults whatever it is. Working with some of the large summer campgrounds where there are presently no organised activities would be a quick way to start it with your target market all in one place.

If you really want to do this, it is a long term plan. I believe most people running outdoor activities have a physical sport background and usually an outdoor activities supervision cert or something like it which no doubt includes first aid certification and the like.

mattwnz

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#731391 12-Dec-2012 13:53

So is this a money making thing for you? If so, all these places will likely charge you commercial rates. Then there is a lot of red tape. It probably needs a good year of planning. Also a website with all the information, branding etc.

NonprayingMantis

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#731393 12-Dec-2012 13:55

youll need access to a fair bit of money to get this thing up and running. the fact that you will be broke for xmas suggests you do not have that money.

Donzac

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#731467 12-Dec-2012 16:04

gzt: Expecting to do this from scratch with no experience running events like this is unrealistic. At the very least you need to start by prototyping the event and ironing out any issues and adjusting the program for maximum enjoyment of the participants. I doubt there is enough time for that before the xmas period. An emphasis on competition from the beginning may not be the best way to do that. Sounds like a fun holiday activity for kids and adults whatever it is. Working with some of the large summer campgrounds where there are presently no organised activities would be a quick way to start it with your target market all in one place.

If you really want to do this, it is a long term plan. I believe most people running outdoor activities have a physical sport background and usually an outdoor activities supervision cert or something like it which no doubt includes first aid certification and the like.

I think I have given people the wrong impression. These are not large scale games. There will be a maximum of twenty players on half a football field. The game play, and rules are extremely simple. I have had a nine year old play it with a minutes instruction My role is primarily to create the puzzles, set the game up and then give the puzzles out, and then shout go!

While it would be nice if I was a fitness instructor it isn't necessary to run the contests. I'd say a person who is experienced in teaching boardgames, to newbies, would be just as good. That's what the game essentially is a boardgame where people move themselves instead of playing pieces.

I have worked on and off on the game for five years. I had a computer programme developed so I could reduce the time to create a unique game from 50 hours to twenty minutes. I have had people play the game privately in both Australia and New Zealand.

So this isn't some random idea that just popped into my head.

Kyanar

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#731476 12-Dec-2012 16:32

Regardless, if you charge an entry fee then it's a commercial activity and there's a whole swathe of things that get involved - everything from taxes on the fees, to permits if it's a competition, to hireage fees for the fields - expect to probably spend $10,000+ just to get it off the ground.

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Donzac

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#731487 12-Dec-2012 16:44

Elpie: How are you going to afford prizes? If you do offer prizes you will need a permit from the Department of Internal Affairs. Using sports fields will require the consent of their owners, which could involve permits and payment of fees. Advertising costs money. Any sporting/fitness event must have health and safety plans in place - this is another likely cost as you will need St John's to be in attendance.

Good luck with getting this off the ground. In my experience sporting-type events need a minimum of six months planning and usually more than one organiser to get everything in place.

Hi,

Thanks for the advice. I composed a long reply, to your post, but, when I went to post it I had spent so long writing it I had to login again and for some reason it never got posted to the thread. Damn....

Anyway, you make a lot of great points and I am already addressing many of them . For instance,
I am doing a St Johns first aid course next week
I will be selling some tools to get some cash( a couple of grands worth)
I have rang internal affairs(I'm okay as I'm not offering prizes)
I have already tentatively booked one sports field(through someone I know)

One thing you forgot to mention was public liability insurance. I'll be ringing around for quotes tomorrow
and should have addressed all your other points by tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks again
For your Advice
Cheers Don

P.S. Hopefully when you made your 6 month estimate you were referring to large scale events. Mine are only tiny 20 players on a football field at a time.

wellygary

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#731491 12-Dec-2012 16:48

(I need about half a football field, to hold the contests, and the rugby clubs I contacted require it to go through their committee and by the time that happens the holidays will be over)

You basically have no chance of getting this organised on a large scale before the end of the holidays, ( you might get one of two locations)

For the size of field you are wanting, you will either have to talk to a club ( football rugby etc)- and this will mean submitting things to their committee), Or talking to the local council ( and they move even slower than clubs)

Also as soon as you explain to either of these groups that this is a commercial activity i.e you are charging people and making money from it - they will want you to have liability insurance, and whole pile of health and safety -

garvani

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#731496 12-Dec-2012 16:54

Yeah unfortunately there's just not enough time to get this organised. You would have ideally started this 6 months ago, the red-tape and general organisation will take months to work through. Not to mention you would have wanted a full marketing blitz in operation about now to get the word out.

Donzac

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#731563 12-Dec-2012 19:28

Oh well... Thanks for all the advice. I'm still going to launch the games in the new year. I'll play the first game up in a paddock near the Kai Iwi Lakes north of Dargaville. Thats where I was born and raised. if anyone from the council tries to stop me I'll just throw them in the hangi and eat the pricks. But seriously, I reckon as a one off I'll get away with it.

One final thing. What has always pissed me off is the general negativity of the bureaucrats I have dealt with. This is an entirely new way for people to get fit. It could be the forerunner to a whole new genre of sport. It may change some people's lives for the better. But they treat me like I'm some prick who wants to set up a corporate paintball game in the middle of Aotea Square. It's pathetic.
Anyway enough raging against the machine....

Have a Merry Christmas everyone and thanks for the advice.
Cheers Don

Elpie

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#731724 13-Dec-2012 02:52

Donzac: Oh well... Thanks for all the advice. I'm still going to launch the games in the new year. I'll play the first game up in a paddock near the Kai Iwi Lakes north of Dargaville. Thats where I was born and raised. if anyone from the council tries to stop me I'll just throw them in the hangi and eat the pricks. But seriously, I reckon as a one off I'll get away with it.

One final thing. What has always pissed me off is the general negativity of the bureaucrats I have dealt with. This is an entirely new way for people to get fit. It could be the forerunner to a whole new genre of sport. It may change some people's lives for the better. But they treat me like I'm some prick who wants to set up a corporate paintball game in the middle of Aotea Square. It's pathetic.

Those bureaucrats have to take your proposal very seriously because, should they permit you to hold your event, they and their organisations can face legal consequences.

If you and a bunch of your mates want to play around in a paddock that's one thing. If you invite members of the public to take part in an unauthorised event in a paddock that's a whole different game. There are a number of legal requirements for your type of activity, whether its just for 20 people or 200. Neglecting to properly organise a compliant event can have some very serious consequences - not just for you (fines up to $500,000 and potential for jail time if something terrible happens), but also for participants.

You plan to hold a public event - have you considered that without crowd control you have no way of limiting the number of people attending to just 20? Kai Iwi Lakes is usually pretty busy at that time of year and if the weather is good then there could be even more people holidaying there than usual. What about bathroom facilities? First Aid? Even if its in a private paddock you still need council permission. What will you do if someone disagrees with your interpretation of the rules - are you equipped to handle disputes that could get out of hand? Seriously, you are setting yourself up for some real problems if you go ahead with this without the proper planning and permits.

I've organised events in the past and what you are proposing to do really scares me. Please read this and reconsider going ahead in such an irresponsible way: http://www.dol.govt.nz/workplace/knowledgebase/item/1380 and http://www.sportnz.org.nz/Documents/faq/Full_Legal_Liability_Document.pdf.

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kiwitrc

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#731732 13-Dec-2012 05:57

I have huge admiration for anyone who takes a risk to improve their lot.

Good luck mate, I hope it works out for you, just remember the Japanese saying about life "Fall down 7 times, get up 8"

Donzac

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#731846 13-Dec-2012 10:25

Those bureaucrats have to take your proposal very seriously because, should they permit you to hold your event, they and their organisations can face legal consequences.

If you and a bunch of your mates want to play around in a paddock that's one thing. If you invite members of the public to take part in an unauthorised event in a paddock that's a whole different game. There are a number of legal requirements for your type of activity, whether its just for 20 people or 200. Neglecting to properly organise a compliant event can have some very serious consequences - not just for you (fines up to $500,000 and potential for jail time if something terrible happens), but also for participants.

You plan to hold a public event - have you considered that without crowd control you have no way of limiting the number of people attending to just 20? Kai Iwi Lakes is usually pretty busy at that time of year and if the weather is good then there could be even more people holidaying there than usual. What about bathroom facilities? First Aid? Even if its in a private paddock you still need council permission. What will you do if someone disagrees with your interpretation of the rules - are you equipped to handle disputes that could get out of hand? Seriously, you are setting yourself up for some real problems if you go ahead with this without the proper planning and permits.

I've organised events in the past and what you are proposing to do really scares me. Please read this and reconsider going ahead in such an irresponsible way: http://www.dol.govt.nz/workplace/knowledgebase/item/1380 and http://www.sportnz.org.nz/Documents/faq/Full_Legal_Liability_Document.pdf.

Hi,

Based on having people play the game, feedback from people over the years, the fact there are no prizes I know there will be very little interest. It is a niche sport If twenty people turn up to play I will consider it a major triumph. I am more worried no-one will turn up

However, you make some valid points and I will address them in the following ways

Capping Numbers: To limit the numbers players will have to pre-register and each player will only be able to bring a maximum of four spectators

Parking: There is ample safe parking on the side of the road for the limited numbers attending. It's a quiet, flat, straight road and even in the height of summer maybe ten cars an hour travel along it.

Toilets: the event only runs for an hour. If someone needs to go to the toilet there are plenty of bushes and the public toilets are only 400 metres away

First aid: As I have already said I'm doing a first aid course next week and will have a first aid kit. In the case of a major injury, emergency services will be contacted and I will take it from there.

Crowd control: There will be a designated area for spectators that will be policed my family.

Player dissent: Having played many sports over the years there is a standard rule they all follow The umpires ruling is final any player dissent will mean immediate removal from the game.

Also,the people who will be attracted to play this game will be very intelligent. This is important. When they see the game they will instantly recognise the time, and cost, that it takes to setup and create a game This will create goodwill. They will also know it is a new sport and I beleive they will accept minor glitches just as sportsman do in major sports that have been around for a hundred years.

Legal requirements: As long as I run the games in a safe manner, make sure there is no danger to the general public, spectators, I'm not worried in the slightest about the law. If you visit the adjacent seaside community you will see far more dangerous illegal activities taking place than my game. Kids zooming along the public road on quads, beach vehicles so unroadworthy that I've seen a wheel drop off, one of them, as it was being driven along.

Anyway, I very much appreciate your input. It has made the game safer for both the players and the general public I know you will still be exasperated by my contempt for the law, the thought something could go wrong and I may be liable for a severe punishment . All I can say is I weighed up the risks for everyone and decided, they are so tiny, it is worth introducing the game to the world.

Cheers
Don

Elpie

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#732106 13-Dec-2012 15:54

I do, sincerely, wish you luck Don. I hope it all goes well for you.

wellygary

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#732122 13-Dec-2012 16:10

Donzac:
Also,the people who will be attracted to play this game will be very intelligent.

Cheers
Don

I think there is an H L Mencken quote directly relevant to that assumption :)

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