Trade me listing fees on sales where the buyer bails

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jarledb

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#184046 8-Nov-2015 15:36

Just discovered that Trade Me doesn't give a new free listing when the buyer bails after winning an auction. Pretty bad business practise.

When asking them about it, the reply was

"A listing fee is a one-off, upfront fee that is charged as the listing fee you pay for covers the space your ad occupies while on the site. This fee is applied whether a sale goes through or not and is non-refundable.

It might help to think of us like a newspaper Jarle - when you list an item in a newspaper you pay for the listing whether the item sell or not."

In other words, they don't care wether the sale actually went through, they want their money regardless. Would have been fairer to the seller if they re-listed for free in instances like these. Especially since they take a substantial success fee as well (which a newspaper never would).

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#1423162 8-Nov-2015 15:36

Hmmmm. Here we go.

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#1423169 8-Nov-2015 15:44

Wow that's bad. Maybe ask to escalate the issue?

DizzyD

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#1423170 8-Nov-2015 15:48

Thats pretty standard.

I think the confusion arises from people believing that trademe is only an auction site. It also lists adverts, ie for property, jobs and services. These adverts have listing fees, regardless if item is sold or not. I'm sure they have it all well documented in their fine print somewhere.

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#1423171 8-Nov-2015 15:50

They credit the commission in that instance. I would expect them to credit the listing fee also.

Have you checked?

In some scenarios that is simpler than next listing free. Eg; if you never relist that item.

jarledb

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#1423173 8-Nov-2015 15:58

gzt: They credit the commission in that instance. I would expect them to credit the listing fee also.

My thought exactly. I had an auction where the reserve was met and bids came in from multiple buyers after that. Of course I got stuck with (a verified) member that just bailed.

Have you checked?

Checking, and have asked to have the ticket escalated. We will see what the end result will be.

In some scenarios that is simpler than next listing free. Eg; if you never relist that item.

If all they wanted was a listing fee, I would be fine with it being something I had to cover. But they charge a success fee as well. In cases where their customers/members (or what to call them) buy an item and then don't follow through on the purchase, I really think it would be in good faith for them to cover a re-listing for free.

Otherwise, they have no incentive for making sure that trades are done in good faith, as they will profit no matter what.

MaxLV

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#1423184 8-Nov-2015 16:35

jarledb: Just discovered that Trade Me doesn't give a new free listing when the buyer bails after winning an auction. Pretty bad business practise.

When asking them about it, the reply was

"A listing fee is a one-off, upfront fee that is charged as the listing fee you pay for covers the space your ad occupies while on the site. This fee is applied whether a sale goes through or not and is non-refundable. It might help to think of us like a newspaper Jarle - when you list an item in a newspaper you pay for the listing whether the item sell or not."

In other words, they don't care wether the sale actually went through, they want their money regardless. Would have been fairer to the seller if they re-listed for free in instances like these. Especially since they take a substantial success fee as well (which a newspaper never would).

Cant see any problem with them charging a listing fee myself. Their reason why it's being charged seems reasonable and valid IMO. You are using a service they provide after all. Why shouldn't the charge (you) for using their website to advertise things for sale?

jarledb

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#1423187 8-Nov-2015 16:45

MaxLV:

Cant see any problem with them charging a listing fee myself. Their reason why it's being charged seems reasonable and valid IMO. You are using a service they provide after all. Why shouldn't the charge (you) for using their website to advertise things for sale?

Well, the thing is they are not providing a straight listing service. They do not share information about the various bidders with me as the seller. If this was an ad listing somewhere, I would have had the ability to follow up with the other bidders that bid over the reserve, and I would have made a sale - regardless of the highest bidder not pulling through.

I paid for a service that was not delivered, as far as I am concerned. Of no fault of my own, the whole process is such that when someone does not follow through after winning the bid, it takes a good amount of hunting after them (something Trade Me does not do), before you can offer the item to the other people that were bidding, and not to mention to relist it.

The very least Trade Me could do to make that whole mess feel like a better experience for me as their customer, would be to offer to re-list the item for free the same way it was listed the first time around.

AND, if enough people actually complain about this bad experience - it would be a lot cheaper for them to do it automatically as well.

But they have a de-facto monopoly of these types of services in New Zealand, so they don't seem to be too concerned with customer satisfaction.

BTW: I got a long e-mail about how they are providing a listing service, and that I got what I paid for - regardless of the outcome. After about an A4 page of reasons why they should get paid, they ended up refunding the listing fee.

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#1423188 8-Nov-2015 16:48

IMO the only person that owes you anything is the deadbeat buyer.

The sooner trademe actually get serious about that problem the better. As it is they just get a little note on their feedback which doesnt affect their score. BS really

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jarledb

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#1423190 8-Nov-2015 16:51

richms: IMO the only person that owes you anything is the deadbeat buyer.

The sooner trademe actually get serious about that problem the better. As it is they just get a little note on their feedback which doesnt affect their score. BS really

Why would Trade Me do anything? They get their listing fees no matter what (unless someone is a squeaky wheel, like me). There is really no incentive the way things are now for them to do anything about it. No serious competitor to worry about, and all the running around after bad faith buyers are left to the seller.

MaxLV

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#1423195 8-Nov-2015 17:07

jarledb:
MaxLV:

Cant see any problem with them charging a listing fee myself. Their reason why it's being charged seems reasonable and valid IMO. You are using a service they provide after all. Why shouldn't the charge (you) for using their website to advertise things for sale?

Well, the thing is they are not providing a straight listing service. They do not share information about the various bidders with me as the seller. If this was an ad listing somewhere, I would have had the ability to follow up with the other bidders that bid over the reserve, and I would have made a sale - regardless of the highest bidder not pulling through.

I paid for a service that was not delivered, as far as I am concerned. Of no fault of my own, the whole process is such that when someone does not follow through after winning the bid, it takes a good amount of hunting after them (something Trade Me does not do), before you can offer the item to the other people that were bidding, and not to mention to relist it.

The very least Trade Me could do to make that whole mess feel like a better experience for me as their customer, would be to offer to re-list the item for free the same way it was listed the first time around.

AND, if enough people actually complain about this bad experience - it would be a lot cheaper for them to do it automatically as well.

But they have a de-facto monopoly of these types of services in New Zealand, so they don't seem to be too concerned with customer satisfaction.

BTW: I got a long e-mail about how they are providing a listing service, and that I got what I paid for - regardless of the outcome. After about an A4 page of reasons why they should get paid, they ended up refunding the listing fee.

How is it Trade Me's fault the a buyer didn't follow through? It's not their fault after all. As to them providing details of bidders to you, why should they do that? you put an item in an auction, the auctioneers dont provide you with the details of everyone who attends the auction, or those who place a bid.

The mess was created by the defaulting buyer, not trade me. Trade Me could relist the item for you free of charge as a 'goodwill gesture' (which is probably the reason they refunded the fee) but IMO you dont have any argument to justify getting free listings from Trade Me at all, even when the buyer defaults...

keewee01

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#1423214 8-Nov-2015 17:26

If there were other bidders why don't you just use the Fixed Price Offer option? You might miss on a few dollars over that the original winner was, but then your listing fee doesn't go to waste.

jarledb

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#1423221 8-Nov-2015 17:32

keewee01: If there were other bidders why don't you just use the Fixed Price Offer option? You might miss on a few dollars over that the original winner was, but then your listing fee doesn't go to waste.

Problem is that you can't do that right away. It takes days from the auction finishes until you can offer that, because you have to give the "buyer" time to get back in touch.

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#1423234 8-Nov-2015 17:59

jarledb: Just discovered that Trade Me doesn't give a new free listing when the buyer bails after winning an auction. Pretty bad business practise.

When asking them about it, the reply was

"A listing fee is a one-off, upfront fee that is charged as the listing fee you pay for covers the space your ad occupies while on the site. This fee is applied whether a sale goes through or not and is non-refundable. It might help to think of us like a newspaper Jarle - when you list an item in a newspaper you pay for the listing whether the item sell or not."

In other words, they don't care wether the sale actually went through, they want their money regardless. Would have been fairer to the seller if they re-listed for free in instances like these. Especially since they take a substantial success fee as well (which a newspaper never would).

I have always thought that charging for the space AND charging success fees is a bit like double dipping.

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#1423236 8-Nov-2015 18:05

jarledb:
richms: IMO the only person that owes you anything is the deadbeat buyer.

The sooner trademe actually get serious about that problem the better. As it is they just get a little note on their feedback which doesnt affect their score. BS really

Why would Trade Me do anything? They get their listing fees no matter what (unless someone is a squeaky wheel, like me). There is really no incentive the way things are now for them to do anything about it. No serious competitor to worry about, and all the running around after bad faith buyers are left to the seller.

Ebay offer seller protection. From their site:

"You are protected from unpaid items through our unpaid item policy. When a buyer wins an item or uses Buy It Now to purchase an item, they're obligated to complete the purchase by paying you.
If a buyer doesn't pay within 2 days, you can open an unpaid item case in the Resolution Center. If the buyer still doesn't pay or reach some other agreement with you after 4 days, and you close the case, we record the unpaid item on the buyer's account.
When an unpaid item case closes without payment from the buyer, you're eligible to receive a final value fee credit to your eBay seller account. Also, if you relist the item and it sells the second time, we may refund the insertion fee for the relisting."

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#1423244 8-Nov-2015 18:31

MaxLV:
jarledb:
MaxLV:

Cant see any problem with them charging a listing fee myself. Their reason why it's being charged seems reasonable and valid IMO. You are using a service they provide after all. Why shouldn't the charge (you) for using their website to advertise things for sale?

Well, the thing is they are not providing a straight listing service. They do not share information about the various bidders with me as the seller. If this was an ad listing somewhere, I would have had the ability to follow up with the other bidders that bid over the reserve, and I would have made a sale - regardless of the highest bidder not pulling through.

I paid for a service that was not delivered, as far as I am concerned. Of no fault of my own, the whole process is such that when someone does not follow through after winning the bid, it takes a good amount of hunting after them (something Trade Me does not do), before you can offer the item to the other people that were bidding, and not to mention to relist it.

The very least Trade Me could do to make that whole mess feel like a better experience for me as their customer, would be to offer to re-list the item for free the same way it was listed the first time around.

AND, if enough people actually complain about this bad experience - it would be a lot cheaper for them to do it automatically as well.

But they have a de-facto monopoly of these types of services in New Zealand, so they don't seem to be too concerned with customer satisfaction.

BTW: I got a long e-mail about how they are providing a listing service, and that I got what I paid for - regardless of the outcome. After about an A4 page of reasons why they should get paid, they ended up refunding the listing fee.

How is it Trade Me's fault the a buyer didn't follow through? It's not their fault after all. As to them providing details of bidders to you, why should they do that? you put an item in an auction, the auctioneers dont provide you with the details of everyone who attends the auction, or those who place a bid.

The mess was created by the defaulting buyer, not trade me. Trade Me could relist the item for you free of charge as a 'goodwill gesture' (which is probably the reason they refunded the fee) but IMO you dont have any argument to justify getting free listings from Trade Me at all, even when the buyer defaults...

It's not trademe's fault. But if the sale is not completed, the commission is not taken.
Trademe has a policy on that
http://www.trademe.co.nz/help/113/how-can-i-apply-for-a-success-fee-refund

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