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6 posts

Wannabe Geek


#265835 13-Feb-2020 14:03
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Just want to gain a bit of insight with whats regarded as normal with WINZ (as never claimed before). 

 

 

 

I have been told after my first Job seekers meeting that I must attend a job interview for fruit picking (at the job center).  This role is considered suitable and one I must accept or I will not receive benefits. 

 

 

 

I fully understand benefits are intended as a safety net but is it typical for highly qualified people (20 years experience, multiple degrees) in their first meeting to be directed to such roles, and given no choice?

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  #2417398 13-Feb-2020 14:21
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You have rights of review. If you are unhappy with a decision made by your Case Manager request a meeting with a Manager. 





Mike
Change Management Consultant
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa




6 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #2417405 13-Feb-2020 14:38
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The thing is I dont really know if I have a leg to stand (for a review) ie if its considered normal. I have no prior experience as a benchmark.  

 

 

 

If everyone gets treated the same, fair enough. Its the system, and I just have to suck it up. 

 

 

 

It depends what WINZ considers normal and defines "suitable work" for which I have an obligation to be seeking. 


 
 
 
 




6 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #2421426 15-Feb-2020 14:58
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As an update. The "interview" process was 20 people in a room at WINZ. Stand up, tell us your name and background.  Then Congratulations you are all hired.

 

 

 

I debated with them if this was suitable work (and would be detrimental to finding a real job). , and was told the definition of suitable working according to WINZ is any job a person is physically able to do (background and qualifications not a factor).   Start next week or come off benefits. 

 

 

 

 


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Ultimate Geek


  #2421428 15-Feb-2020 15:24
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ProfX:

 

As an update. The "interview" process was 20 people in a room at WINZ. Stand up, tell us your name and background.  Then Congratulations you are all hired.

 

 

 

I debated with them if this was suitable work (and would be detrimental to finding a real job). , and was told the definition of suitable working according to WINZ is any job a person is physically able to do (background and qualifications not a factor).   Start next week or come off benefits. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't mean to be rude, but what do you consider a "real" job? Because for a lot of people that is their real job. The purpose of the job seeker benefit is to help you find alternative income to get you off the benefit during hardship.

 

If you're unsatisfied with the quality of the job then maybe you should go to a recruitment agency?


gzt

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  #2421433 15-Feb-2020 15:47
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ProfX: As an update. The "interview" process was 20 people in a room at WINZ. Stand up, tell us your name and background.Then Congratulations you are all hired.

This seems short. Did the prospective employer present wage rates, working conditions? Then did the employer present a contract based on that and answer questions about that contract?

gzt

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  #2421437 15-Feb-2020 15:57
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ProfX: I debated with them if this was suitable work (and would be detrimental to finding a real job). , and was told the definition of suitable working according to WINZ is any job a person is physically able to do (background and qualifications not a factor). Start next week or come off benefits.

Going by the previous comment from MikeB4 the best contact person to discuss your circumstances with is a winz case manager. If you had that conversation with a random winz person instead - there is every chance you got a random answer.



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Wannabe Geek


  #2421439 15-Feb-2020 16:05
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gzt:
ProfX: As an update. The "interview" process was 20 people in a room at WINZ. Stand up, tell us your name and background.Then Congratulations you are all hired.

This seems short. Did the prospective employer present wage rates, working conditions? Then did the employer present a contract based on that and answer questions about that contract?

 

 

 

No disrespect intended but is it really to the benefit of NZ if in the first job seekers meeting doctors, engineers, nurses, teachers,  are within 24 hours given a no choice job fruit picking?

 

The role of WINZ (as per their website) is 

 

"To help people get jobs by providing:

 

  • workshops and practical advice for getting work
  • training, seminars or work experience to build up confidence and skills
  • grants and subsidies to encourage employers to provide work
  • income support to help people get into, and stay in work
  • practical support for people with the right experience to start a business."

If you are immediately forced into unskilled roles they are failing to provide this service.  They are simply getting you off the system. 

 

This enables farmers/orchards to exploit the system and hire staff regardless of pay or standards, or treatment.  Professionals put into these roles will last only until they find work elsewhere (high turn around and costs), and jobs are taken from those who would be better suited to these roles and be happy in them. 

 

 

 

Even for those that take the roles it is at best temporary as season work, and there is a stand-down period before they can claim again. 

 

 

 

I understand benefits are intended as a safety net. But there is no need for WINZ  if before your even assigned a case manager you are assigned a job.  Thats not acting as a safety net.  That's exploiting people's situation. 

 

 


 
 
 
 




6 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #2421441 15-Feb-2020 16:11
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gzt:
ProfX: I debated with them if this was suitable work (and would be detrimental to finding a real job). , and was told the definition of suitable working according to WINZ is any job a person is physically able to do (background and qualifications not a factor). Start next week or come off benefits.

Going by the previous comment from MikeB4 the best contact person to discuss your circumstances with is a winz case manager. If you had that conversation with a random winz person instead - there is every chance you got a random answer.

 

 

 

It has happened so quickly they have not even assigned me a case manager.  But I spoke to the guy who I met on my first meeting.  Their response to me was a clear and hard no.  The only consideration is are you physically able to perform the work. 

 

No contract has been provided, the exact roles not fully described (there are several types some requiring heavy lifting which woman would not be required to do). All very vague. 

 

Been told to turn up next week (with someone from WINZ) for my induction. 

 

 


gzt

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  #2421451 15-Feb-2020 16:41
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What you are describing sounds ethically and procedurally wrong for a govt dept on a basic level. You are being asked to start work without knowing much about the role or the employer and without winz assessing your particular circumstances.

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Ultimate Geek


  #2421455 15-Feb-2020 17:05
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ProfX:

 

gzt:
ProfX: I debated with them if this was suitable work (and would be detrimental to finding a real job). , and was told the definition of suitable working according to WINZ is any job a person is physically able to do (background and qualifications not a factor). Start next week or come off benefits.

Going by the previous comment from MikeB4 the best contact person to discuss your circumstances with is a winz case manager. If you had that conversation with a random winz person instead - there is every chance you got a random answer.

 

 

 

It has happened so quickly they have not even assigned me a case manager.  But I spoke to the guy who I met on my first meeting.  Their response to me was a clear and hard no.  The only consideration is are you physically able to perform the work. 

 

No contract has been provided, the exact roles not fully described (there are several types some requiring heavy lifting which woman would not be required to do). All very vague. 

 

Been told to turn up next week (with someone from WINZ) for my induction. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There should be a 24-48hr period for you to check over the terms of the contract. It is up to you if you accept the contract/working conditions not MSD to assign the role to you then cut your benefit if you chose not to accept the terms.


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  #2421458 15-Feb-2020 17:22
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gzt: What you are describing sounds ethically and procedurally wrong for a govt dept on a basic level. You are being asked to start work without knowing much about the role or the employer and without winz assessing your particular circumstances.

 

 

 

Sadly this is common place, my partner was involved in this treatment as well.


253 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2421478 15-Feb-2020 18:45
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I recommend you avoid casual agricultural work.

 

Often way out in the country, you do not get paid travel time.

 

If you get rained-off you don't get paid.

 

It is only seasonal, once the season is over you need to get another job.

 

Some employers in this sector, how can I put it politely, lack charm.

 

A minimum wage job even if part time in a place like Bunnings or a supermarket is a better option in my opinion.

 

PS. If you have a family try to get your hours-worked up so you qualify for Working for Families.





Obsequious hypocrite

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  #2421485 15-Feb-2020 19:31
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IMHO the purpose of a Jobseeker benefit is to seek a job. That gets you employed, it saves the taxpayers the cost. Now that you are fruit picking, which you are qualified for, you are free to seek a role that suits you better.

 

If you want to be picky, no pun intended, you can't expect a benefit, surely. 


231 posts

Master Geek


  #2421506 15-Feb-2020 19:59
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ProfX:

 

As an update. The "interview" process was 20 people in a room at WINZ. Stand up, tell us your name and background.  Then Congratulations you are all hired.

 

 

 

I debated with them if this was suitable work (and would be detrimental to finding a real job). , and was told the definition of suitable working according to WINZ is any job a person is physically able to do (background and qualifications not a factor).   Start next week or come off benefits. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You agree as part of receiving your Jobseekers Benefit that you will take any suitable employment. What is the reason that you cannot work the job?

 

What you have described is how it works & there is nothing procedurally wrong with it. If you do not do the work without good explanation you can expect to receive a stand down and longer term your benefit may be cancelled. I say this as having previously been a Community Advocate.


4703 posts

Uber Geek


  #2421547 15-Feb-2020 21:37
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ProfX:

 

As an update. The "interview" process was 20 people in a room at WINZ. Stand up, tell us your name and background.  Then Congratulations you are all hired.

 

 

 

I debated with them if this was suitable work (and would be detrimental to finding a real job). , and was told the definition of suitable working according to WINZ is any job a person is physically able to do (background and qualifications not a factor).   Start next week or come off benefits. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If this were the case, everyone would be working.

 

I agree with you, they should not be throwing people with your skills into 'fruit picking'. 


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