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Topic # 57014 31-Jan-2010 14:50
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Really unsure about whose fault it is at moment and need your opinions

Had a car accident just last night (10:35pm)
I'm travelling south along Domion road in Auckland. I realize I've missed a turn/got lost, so I start indicating to the left as i wanted to pull over to figure out where i need to go. I indicated longer than the required 3 seconds b4 making the lane change. 

I Checked rear view and looked over my shoulder twice and thought it was clear to pull into the green marked bus lane then stop after the yellow lines. As I start turning into the bus lane, a car (not sure if he was over or under the speed limit) manages to overtake me and in the process we make contact resulting in major panel damage of both our cars. 

From my understanding, overtaking someone from the left is not allowed - He acknowledges that he sped up as I was indicating.
But given the circumstances that i was moving into his lane i think i could possibly at fault? - although i did everything in my power to make sure the lane change was safe.

I have 2 witnesses and he has none. He doesn't have insurance, I have 3rd party, $800 excess :( 
Both drivers are fully licensed.

Who is at fault here? any help appreciated thanks.

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  Reply # 294902 31-Jan-2010 15:03
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I would have said that the other guy was at fault because you were in front of him, and it is the responsibility of people following to avoid colliding with anyone in front of them.

However, given that you possibly pulled into the left lane in front of someone who was already in that lane, it does make the case a little less clear cut.

Because you have witnesses, you are probably still in a strong position depending on the testimony of those witnesses.

IANAL but it sounds to me as if you did everything you should have regarding indication before turning, checking your rear-view mirror and looking over your shoulder.





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  Reply # 294903 31-Jan-2010 15:07
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In the Eyes of the law, IIRC They are in the wrong for failing to follow with sufficient distance.

You would need to check on this tho

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 294908 31-Jan-2010 15:29
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You mention a bus lane, was he in it when you hit them?

Were they undertaking you with the intention of continuing down the road, or were you both wanting to pull over?

From having a quick look on g/maps it looks like that the bus lane is actually a bus lane only during certain hours, and outside that its a no parking zone/parking area. It is not a normal roadway, is that correct?

If that is correct, then I would be reporting it to the police, along with everything you know, including witness contact details etc. The other guy should end up with atleast one $150 fine.

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  Reply # 294911 31-Jan-2010 15:34
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Insufficient distance from you and passing on an inside lane (the latter unsure if it's illegal on a multiple lane motorway) either way, they admitted accelarting as you indicated also. So they're at fault IMO for not following at a safe distance.




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  Reply # 294913 31-Jan-2010 15:42
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A bus lane is only a bus lane during the hours indicated on the signs that should be displayed with it. Outside those times it's a lane that anybody can use. When changing from one lane to another the onus is on the person changing lanes to make sure that the movement can be made safely (Road User Rule 2004 2.3(2)(b)).

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  Reply # 294916 31-Jan-2010 15:47
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Also overtaking on the left is not an offence if both vehicles are in different lanes.

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  Reply # 294917 31-Jan-2010 15:51
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You are in the wrong, the fact of the matter is you turned into his car, it isn't illegal to over take from the left, also you dont have to be at a certain distance following if you are in a different lane (thats absurd)... Better check your blind spot next time.



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  Reply # 294921 31-Jan-2010 15:55
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rscole86: You mention a bus lane, was he in it when you hit them?

Were they undertaking you with the intention of continuing down the road, or were you both wanting to pull over?

From having a quick look on g/maps it looks like that the bus lane is actually a bus lane only during certain hours, and outside that its a no parking zone/parking area. It is not a normal roadway, is that correct?

If that is correct, then I would be reporting it to the police, along with everything you know, including witness contact details etc. The other guy should end up with atleast one $150 fine.



The other car was in the bus lane and I in the other. Both travelling south/right (in reference to the picture below)


Other car was intending to continue down the road. I was intending to pull over.
It was 10.35pm so the bus lane is no longer a bus lane. i suppose it is a normal roadway after hours? 


We made contact just a few meters after where the van is in this pic.
He was travelling alot faster than me at the time we made contact and he ended up in front of me. We both pulled over just on the green marked bus lane area to the right of this pic.


Accident



We made contact just after the intersection where the

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  Reply # 294924 31-Jan-2010 16:03
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Your insurance co will likely take the cop-out route and declare both drivers to be at fault - which in terms of an outcome is the same as determining you to be at fault.


Have had the same thing happen to me - except I was in the position of the other guy, big-ass 4wd tries to pull in front of me, I back off thinking there is no way he will take no for an answer, and end up getting my bumper ripped off by his trailer. I acknowledged not seeing his trailer, but as far as I was concerned there was never any time where the lane next to him was clear enough to complete the lane-change so he must be at fault - clear violation of the road code.


Unfortunately as far as my insurance co was concerned I was partly at fault by looking like I was letting him in but not leaving enough space for him. They also said he was to blame for the reason above - but due to fault being on both parties, and the fact his solid trailer had no damage and the front of my car was seriously messed up, the outcome was as if I was at fault. So I have to pay the excess, and my supposed no-claims bonus for life policy premium mysteriously jumps up at the next renewal...


Very frustrating - and should I ever be in the reverse position I'll remind my insurance company of this...






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  Reply # 294929 31-Jan-2010 16:07
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patznz: You are in the wrong, the fact of the matter is you turned into his car, it isn't illegal to over take from the left, also you dont have to be at a certain distance following if you are in a different lane (thats absurd)... Better check your blind spot next time.



Thanks. Just had a website linked to me with the road rules website just to clarify. But I still feel that the other driver acknowledged that he sped up and saw me indicate may have great significance.  


Just a shame i couldn't see him, Im quite aware of the blindspot in my car. been driving it for 6 years now. Just wasn't good enough.  :(. left indicator was taken out leaving my car unworthy for the road.


Im off to the police station to have this reported. never been in an accident b4 and in that moment it just didn't occur to report it as i thought you would only do this if someone was injured. thank god no one wasn't Ill update when i get back.

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  Reply # 294945 31-Jan-2010 16:27
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if you hit where you said you did, you also changed lanes in an intersection. last I checked that wasn't something you should be doing unless it is safe

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resour...




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  Reply # 294947 31-Jan-2010 16:42
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A couple of things you need to clarify here:
1) Do you know which lane he was in before he undertook you?
2) Where is the damage located on your car and his car?
3) Confirm you indicated for more than 3s in the correct direction before moving to the left?
4) Was it possible he was in your blind spot and you didnt see him, or do you think he made a sudden lane change into the bus lane to get past you?

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  Reply # 294953 31-Jan-2010 16:49
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also was he driving with correct lights on. Lots of tards just have parks and foglights which is pretty easy to miss.




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  Reply # 294956 31-Jan-2010 17:02
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Also look at http://www.legislation.govt.nz... which contains most of the relevant regulations regarding the laws you are talking about.

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  Reply # 294961 31-Jan-2010 17:09
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whispernz: Thanks. Just had a website linked to me with the road rules website just to clarify. But I still feel that the other driver acknowledged that he sped up and saw me indicate may have great significance.  


Perhaps he speed up because you were about to hit him? But unfortunately he didn't speed up enough to help you avoid colliding with him. Were you slowing down after you missed your turn?





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