How to get Chorus to use existing cat5e cabling for UFB install?

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TechnoGuy001

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#195917 11-May-2016 19:58

No Chorus subforum? I couldn't find one, just a mention not to use the Spark subforum, so I'm posting here, please move if it's not the right spot.

TLDR: The apartment I live in has cat5e cabling, and Chorus doesn't seem to respond to requests to use it for the fibre install, instead of drilling holes in walls/ceiling.

So the apartment I live has fibre access and has had since mid last year, I signed up about 3 months ago and about 3 weeks later 2 Chorus install guys came over, done the inspection, everything seemed fine, they booked an install date, they came back and then found out there is a fire wall blocking access to my apartment from the cabinet/walk in cuboard in the main hall, so now they want to put a big hole the ceiling in another hallway (closer to my apartment) and then holes in the wall and drag a fibre cable all along the inside of the apartment visible for about 5-7m.

I'm not getting permission from my landlord for this, so for the last 2 months I've been trying to get my ISP to talk with Chorus and ask them to use the existing perfectly fine cat5e cabling which the nice guys who built this place have put in all the apartments, 3 ports, each of which terminate in the cabinet in the hall way. (none of which are being used for anything, 1 used to be used for ADSL, but you can see that behind the port is a standard cat5e cable, and the distance to the hallway is about 15m through the wall, well within its gigabit length limits)

There is a ton of room in the cabinet, it's locked and just as secure as if they terminated the fibre in my apartment, and would mean no changes to any walls or ceilings or holes, would also be way faster to install, but seems impossible to get approved (or get any feedback from Chorus).

Is there anyone from Chorus here who could spread some light on this?

What really annoys me is that the people who designed/built this apartment thought ahead and put in decent networking, planning for the future, many apartments in Auckland don't have this, and it's a real shame that it seems impossible to take advance of this.

BarTender

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#1551134 11-May-2016 20:02

Is there any power in there?? As the ONT needs power. Plus you need two pair. One for ethernet and another for voice.
Plus fire proofing or sufficient air flow.

TechnoGuy001

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#1551137 11-May-2016 20:06

Yep, (power) as the freedomInternet wifi guys have their gear running in it.

Also I'm only getting internet, no phone service.

Airflow may be limited, but the fibre was going to get terminated in my closet in the apartment so it wouldn't get any more airflow here.

Though the cabinet would probably be cooler than my place since it's in a hallway which always has airflow coming in from the outside.

As for fire proofing, I don't know.

sbiddle

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#1551172 11-May-2016 20:56

ONT has to be installed in each apartment. End of story. Communal ONT's are not a supported scenario.

The spec was written for the reuse of existing structured cabling and your building won't meet it. All apartments must run back to a single point as it wouldn't be an ONT that'll be installed. This deployment model has gone nowhere because basically no buildings meet the requirements.

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#1551174 11-May-2016 20:59

Thought it might be something like that... Thanks for clarifying.

mdf

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#1551180 11-May-2016 21:10

Would it be a "communal" ONT though? I read the original post as meaning that if (say) 5 flats wanted fibre, there'd be 5 ONTs in a shared cupboard, patched through to a router in each apartment?

sbiddle

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#1551183 11-May-2016 21:12

mdf:

Would it be a "communal" ONT though? I read the original post as meaning that if (say) 5 flats wanted fibre, there'd be 5 ONTs in a shared cupboard, patched through to a router in each apartment?

I meant an ONT in a communal space.

In a MDU setup each apartment has to have it's own ONT located within the apartment.

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mdf

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#1551184 11-May-2016 21:14

sbiddle:

mdf:

Would it be a "communal" ONT though? I read the original post as meaning that if (say) 5 flats wanted fibre, there'd be 5 ONTs in a shared cupboard, patched through to a router in each apartment?

I meant an ONT in a communal space.

In a MDU setup each apartment has to have it's own ONT located within the apartment.

That answers that.

I'd suggest something like each apartment doing a cross lease over a shelf in the cupboard so you could argue that the cupboard was "part" of the apartment. But I suspect that may well result in collapsing space and time as we know it.

atomeara

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#1551718 12-May-2016 19:37

There are some options around using CAT5e but it sounds like that boat has already sailed for your building because it has already had the MDU build done. They won't do a build where they use CAT5e to some of the units and fibre to other units.
You could try and log a new install request for the cupboard / room where the CAT5e terminates and see if they will put it in there. I don't like your chances but the techs have no idea what is going on half the time. They do not need to know it is going to be connected to your apartment.
You will prob need landlord or body corp approval and power for the ONT.

Any complex takes a long long time with Chorus. I have been waiting since Feb to get the design for my ROW driveway. Somehow the designer thought it would be a good idea to only connect 3 of the 5 houses but request consent from all 5. The Wilson Hurst who look after the legal stuff for Chorus has sent this back to them for the 3rd time telling them to do all 5.

Chorus details on using CAT5e:

Fibre to the building (FTTB) Chorus may deliver UFB services in Multi-Dwelling Units (MDUs) with common communications rooms using Fibre to the Premises (FTTP) and in-building reticulation where Cat 5e cabling exists. Where existing cabling isn't sufficient to deliver requested UFB services Chorus will continue to reticulate using fibre.

This solution will reduce the cost of installations, including cost that may be chargeable to the building owner, while still delivering UFB services, and potentially eliminate some consent requirements that delay connection. The increased flexibility should lift UFB uptake.

https://www.chorus.co.nz/chorus-and-crown-fibre-holdings-agree-package-of-ufb-improvements

braaaaaaainssss

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#1553652 16-May-2016 17:16

"In a MDU setup each apartment has to have it's own ONT located within the apartment"

Sorry to hijack, but can anyone in the know tell me how long the above sentence has been the standard?

I've moved into a brand new set of apartments, that had a custom cabinet put under one of the outer stairwells to house everyone's ONT boxes... but now, as per the sentence, Enable have said they'll only install fibre by adding an ONT box onto the outside of each apartment.

Seems like a waste of nice cupboard... is this the builder/electricians fault? Has the standard changed recently?

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#1553682 16-May-2016 19:15

braaaaaaainssss:

"In a MDU setup each apartment has to have it's own ONT located within the apartment"

Sorry to hijack, but can anyone in the know tell me how long the above sentence has been the standard?

I've moved into a brand new set of apartments, that had a custom cabinet put under one of the outer stairwells to house everyone's ONT boxes... but now, as per the sentence, Enable have said they'll only install fibre by adding an ONT box onto the outside of each apartment.

Seems like a waste of nice cupboard... is this the builder/electricians fault? Has the standard changed recently?

It's been the standard since day 1 of the UFB rollout.

Without knowing a lot more about your specific situation it's not possible to comment.

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#1553691 16-May-2016 19:42

sbiddle:

braaaaaaainssss:

"In a MDU setup each apartment has to have it's own ONT located within the apartment"

Sorry to hijack, but can anyone in the know tell me how long the above sentence has been the standard?

I've moved into a brand new set of apartments, that had a custom cabinet put under one of the outer stairwells to house everyone's ONT boxes... but now, as per the sentence, Enable have said they'll only install fibre by adding an ONT box onto the outside of each apartment.

Seems like a waste of nice cupboard... is this the builder/electricians fault? Has the standard changed recently?

It's been the standard since day 1 of the UFB rollout.

Without knowing a lot more about your specific situation it's not possible to comment.

So, my thinking is that the requirement is to prevent tampering with your equipment (or people trying to leech your particular ONT and so on. Not unreasonable I guess, especially in a country where people have historically tapped into their neighbours electrical and gas mains in the past).

Why not just install some form of lockable (but not airtight) cabinet for all ONT's to go into? Each apartment owner would control access to their own shelf/etc. This would require discussion/agreement with Chorus and so on, not an enviable task, and there would be extra costs of course because more cabinets etc.

It's not perfect, doesn't address the patch panel, but really the ONT only needs to go somewhere secure and is never really touched again unless it goes faulty.

I can understand the thinking - I have been into many apartments where the gas and electric meters are all in the basement, but nobody really tries tampering with those these days.

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atomeara

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#1553701 16-May-2016 20:06

I don't believe that is the main reason.

I think it around mostly making sure each unit gets a good connection. There are to many old or shoddy MDUs that have no cabling, old or bad cabling, cable runs are to long or they have used CAT3 cable everywhere. Who would cover the cost if something needed to be upgraded. From my experience landlords have zero interest is helping funding the install of UFB, they would be just as unlikely to want to upgrade internal cabling. Does each tenant arrange it themselves, can you imagine the mess that would end up, as some would do it themselves.

It also makes the demarcation point challenging for the UFB provider. How many issues does bad internal wiring within a house cause with ADSL/VDSL?

From my experience with some big sized buildings projects many developers and project managers are clueless when it comes to IT and Comms.

I think Crown Fibre made the right call with ROW and MDU's even if it is a right pain in the backside getting it installed.

sbiddle

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#1553704 16-May-2016 20:20

One of the main reasons the ONT had to be in the apartment is that RFoF/RFoG (RF overlay) was a design requirement for the network. This meant the ONT had to be inside the premises to use the RF output.

99% of buildings don't have cat6 cabling suitable for delivering services without a lot of hacks - it's pretty stock standard over the last few years for new apartment builds to have a single cat6 run from each apartment to a riser on each floor. In all the apartment buildings I've ever worked in I've only ever seen a single one that has cat6 from each apartment back to a comms room, which was the CFH requirement to use existing copper. Such a plan wouldn't have involved multiple ONT's, it would have been an Ethernet switch with fibre uplink, and meant a whole new provisioning stack.