NetHui & UFB

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shanehobson

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#201785 3-Sep-2016 19:46

A small team of us are facilitating sessions at the 2016 regional NetHui loosely entitled "one hour-long discussion session looking at issues around the ‘Ultra Fast Broadband / Rural Broadband Initiatives"

We're keen to hear from anyone (but especially NetHui attendees) what you would like to see discussed at these sessions. Please post your views here or private message me.

We would also love to know if you're attending NetHui this year and which region.

If you'd like to know more about NetHui, click this : http://2016.nethui.nz

DarkShadow

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#1622129 3-Sep-2016 20:18

Will you be posting these online afterwards?

shanehobson

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#1622478 4-Sep-2016 16:47

sure

raytaylor

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#1627004 10-Sep-2016 14:54

I have two major issues

1) When I place an order with chorus, the soonest I can schedule the install is about 58 days in hawkes bay.

2) The UFB agreement says that the install will be completed within 4 days of receiving an order. Except when there are no appointment slots available to select and you 'agreed to the date when you placed the order' see point 1.

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shanehobson

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#1636977 21-Sep-2016 06:11

20 years ago when I used dial up internet (two phone lines bonded together), email & web browsing worked well and my needs were met. But back then Youtube didn’t exist and couldn’t exist had it not been for the arrival of Jetstream (and it’s competitors).

Now we have 100M into our homes (or 30M on rural wireless in my case), we feel our needs are adequately served. I can play Youtube videos, stream TV, anything I could wish for.

But what is it that we haven’t thought of yet that simply won’t run on today 30M xDSL type broadband service and will need 200M fibre ?

shanehobson

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#1650804 14-Oct-2016 07:38

Here's the proposed updated intro for the UFB/RBI session I'm facilitating at NetHui Rotorua.

Keen to hear your views :

"Your facilitator counts amongst his previous employers a couple of wireless ISPs, several fibre network owners and a Govt partner in the UFB roll out. Freed from the shackles of employment, Shane will argue that the Govt has wasted it’s money on UFB & RBI and has simply enabled faster cat videos for the masses. He will be equipped with facts & figures and challenges NetHui attendees to prove him wrong and show that the UFB / RBI rollout is worthwhile and should be continued with robust enthusiasm. Prizes of chocolate fish (and dairy free, gluten free equivalents) will be dispensed to those who put forward a strong argument for either side of the debate "

BarTender

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#1651090 14-Oct-2016 14:11

shanehobson:

Here's the proposed updated intro for the UFB/RBI session I'm facilitating at NetHui Rotorua.

Keen to hear your views :

"Your facilitator counts amongst his previous employers a couple of wireless ISPs, several fibre network owners and a Govt partner in the UFB roll out. Freed from the shackles of employment, Shane will argue that the Govt has wasted it’s money on UFB & RBI and has simply enabled faster cat videos for the masses. He will be equipped with facts & figures and challenges NetHui attendees to prove him wrong and show that the UFB / RBI rollout is worthwhile and should be continued with robust enthusiasm. Prizes of chocolate fish (and dairy free, gluten free equivalents) will be dispensed to those who put forward a strong argument for either side of the debate "

I think it's important to distinguish Chorus Copper ADSL2+/VDSL Service EUBA/WVS on an ISAM vs ADSL1 on Conklins / ASAMs over ATM vs UFB vs Mobile RBI from Vodafone.

As depending on who you ask "Fixed RBI" covers the further expansion of the Chorus cabinetsation project out replacing ASAMs/Conklins with ISAMs and providing ADSL2+/VDSL service and uncongested backhaul instead of what is currently the case on the Chorus ATM backbone and bonded E1 links around the country. The fewer people on a ASAM and Conklin can only be a good thing so I think that's an excellent thing that Chorus are continuing to invest in rural areas. I believe it will be sub 20k customers on the old network come mid-next year and those are the areas where it's just not worth doing the upgrades. Also lets them shutdown the Chorus/Spark ATM network late next year in theory.

I can see those ASAM/Conklin serviced customers being covered with Wireless Broadband in the future if Vodafone/Spark/2D/WISPs have their way. This too would be a good thing for everyone.

My view was somewhat skeptical about the UFB roll-out to begin with as the VDSL coverage footprint was already pretty good. However with the uptake such as it is there is a vast improvement on service availability and reliability over legacy copper services. There was simply a whole lot of houses out there with poor internal wiring and issues with copper in the ground that are only resolved with moving to Fibre. At some point as a country we will need to move away from legacy copper services, and now that the build is over half way there the service reliability is a massive leap forward. Even if the process of getting customers connected is a painful one the end result is the right one. The main thing that needs to be sorted is MDUs, body corps and landlords being able to say no. If UFB was deemed an essential service like water / power / sewerage then so much of the stupidness would go away.

The alternate is the complete disaster that is currently unfolding in Australia, where the Aussies are doing cabinisation similar to what Telecom did in 2007-2011. And they are doing a really poor job of it. What is happening this side of the ditch is vastly superior and come 2020 it will be an interesting market to play in.

Mobile RBI was just government subsidization of Chorus fibre and Vodafone towers. The Chorus funds have helped to extend their fibre network into areas that it otherwise wouldn't have been cost effective to do. The money Vodafone received has helped them improve coverage. Plus Spark/2D can piggy back on it should they want to extend their coverage there. Spark/Skinny are making an interesting play with the Wireless Broadband as that's a whole lot of Mobile GB than what is currently on offer. I'm 50/50 on if this money was well spent.

You could say it's all about cat videos. But I look at it that at some point the money will need to be spent. Similar to Transmission Gully in Wellington or the Auckland Rail Loop. Either you spend 1 Billion now, or 5 Billion in 10 years. Which is the better investment for the country as a whole?

shanehobson

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#1651094 14-Oct-2016 14:13

Thanks, really appreciate some well thought out feedback.

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sbiddle

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#1651097 14-Oct-2016 14:21

You could never provide financial figures or business plan to show that fibre makes sense. That's why fibre rollouts must be funded by Governments or those with very deep pockets who do not expect to see a traditional ROI.

Just look at Google who even seem to be coughing at the price to build a fibre network.

UFB is just like building roads 100 years ago. Horse and cart users couldn't see the point but it didn't take long for those with vision to see they were right.

shanehobson

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#1651246 14-Oct-2016 18:33

We're five years into the UFB journey and all I've seen is Netflix, Lightbox and YouTube cat videos in HD that we couldn't do before.

I understand the traditional business case doesn't stack up, or it would have been done already.

I assume the Govt did this on some belief that GDP, tax take or something else would improve as a result.

I'm trying to discover some of those winning stories of NZ businesses that spouted or flourished as a consequence of UFB or RBI.

nitrotech

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#1651260 14-Oct-2016 19:19

Interesting thoughts - no question that the government pushed the button on UFB claiming all sorts of benefits for business.

When it launched uncapped plans were only available on residential plans and businesses had to pay much higher prices and have tiny data caps.

But this has changed - there are now unlimited business plans available to businesses through most ISPs and while more expensive than residential still pretty good value.

There are pretty good benefits for business moving to UFB and I personally am glad the government made the investment, lets face it UFB will be never be cheaper to build than it is today.

I would certainly like to come along and listen to your thoughts however I can spare the full day on Monday but hope it goes well.

Note: typing this on a phone so apologies for spelling and grammar