UFB network and PSTN Exchanges

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OldGeek

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#213990 22-Apr-2017 14:22

With the recent announcement from Spark about exchange upgrades, I am wondering what the role of an (former PSTN) exchange is with the (UFB) fibre-to-the-home network currently being rolled out. The PSTN involved copper wiring. UFB is a copper-wiring replacement. Looking here: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11840913 there is no reference to the UFB network.

So where does all this fit into the UFB space?

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#1768910 22-Apr-2017 14:26

Two seperate networks that will ultimatley one day (in a few decades), have different purposes (not excluding providing redundancy between the two).

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#1768925 22-Apr-2017 14:39

Chorus own most of the exchange buildings, not Spark. Spark simply own the NEAX switch that sits inside it.

UFB and copper equipment will still exist inside the cabinets as it's only the NEAX that's being shut down. There are still no definitive plans to shut down any part of the copper network, xDSL network or to stop providing voice services over copper using the ISAM-V or UCLL solutions.

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#1768954 22-Apr-2017 16:12

sbiddle:

Chorus own most of the exchange buildings, not Spark. Spark simply own the NEAX switch that sits inside it.

UFB and copper equipment will still exist inside the cabinets as it's only the NEAX that's being shut down. There are still no definitive plans to shut down any part of the copper network, xDSL network or to stop providing voice services over copper using the ISAM-V or UCLL solutions.

And, buildings like are extremely valuable even if they are a hassle to keep uptodate. It will take many years to decommission equipment, and for those places which havent gone to voip yet, analogue voice is being fired from the iSAM cabinet, so of which are exchange and other cabinet fed.

I remember going into BT's Holborn exchange, and the place was a cavern - once the mechanical switching had been moved to digital (reducing space needs by 70%), the onsite techs had somewhere to play footie in. Quite unreal to see in the centre of London.

Why on earth would Chorus or similar give up all that space? the only thing anyone can be sure of is that the uncertain nature of technology means space, power, racks, aircon and cabling will always have value.

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hio77

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#1769019 22-Apr-2017 20:06

to give a direct answer on how UFB is used to provide voice, You have two options as a RSP;

1, Provide voice over the ONT FON ports, This is what i feel to be the cleanest and smooth option as it makes it very easy for integrated wiring installations (causing a very seamless feeling experience)

2, Voice provided via SIP on the RGW, This is what is commonly used by most RSP.

In both cases, it is a SIP implementation, however generally the ONT voice is over private vlans etc.

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hyperman

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#1769041 22-Apr-2017 20:43

Correct me if I am wrong but is this not a complete waste of time and money

UFB and UFB2 once complete will cover 80%+ and with RBI etc taking up the slack who in their right mind will still be using copper once the investment has started paying for it's self.

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer

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#1769047 22-Apr-2017 20:56

hyperman:

Correct me if I am wrong but is this not a complete waste of time and money

UFB and UFB2 once complete will cover 80%+ and with RBI etc taking up the slack who in their right mind will still be using copper once the investment has started paying for it's self.

Copper PSTN certainly won't be going anywhere anytime soon

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DarkShadow

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#1769049 22-Apr-2017 20:59

hio77:

to give a direct answer on how UFB is used to provide voice, You have two options as a RSP;

1, Provide voice over the ONT FON ports, This is what i feel to be the cleanest and smooth option as it makes it very easy for integrated wiring installations (causing a very seamless feeling experience)

2, Voice provided via SIP on the RGW, This is what is commonly used by most RSP.

In both cases, it is a SIP implementation, however generally the ONT voice is over private vlans etc.

There is one more option:

3, Deliver voice via a smartphone app, like Stuff.

hyperman

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#1769050 22-Apr-2017 21:00

hio77:

hyperman:

Correct me if I am wrong but is this not a complete waste of time and money

UFB and UFB2 once complete will cover 80%+ and with RBI etc taking up the slack who in their right mind will still be using copper once the investment has started paying for it's self.

Copper PSTN certainly won't be going anywhere anytime soon

It wont be going anywhere; but I can certainly see a large reduction in demand for it over the next 10-15 years.
I am just guessing here but I would have thought that would be about the time frame for investment to pay for it's self

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer

hio77

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#1769053 22-Apr-2017 21:03

DarkShadow:

There is one more option:

3, Deliver voice via a smartphone app, like Stuff.

Fair point, although i would say that's not really counted at a low level..

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hio77

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#1769054 22-Apr-2017 21:04

hyperman:

It wont be going anywhere; but I can certainly see a large reduction in demand for it over the next 10-15 years.
I am just guessing here but I would have thought that would be about the time frame for investment to pay for it's self

maybe repairs are costing more than it would to replace fully?

I can't say honestly, i don't have the numbers myself..

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hyperman

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#1769067 22-Apr-2017 21:14

hio77:

hyperman:

It wont be going anywhere; but I can certainly see a large reduction in demand for it over the next 10-15 years.
I am just guessing here but I would have thought that would be about the time frame for investment to pay for it's self

maybe repairs are costing more than it would to replace fully?

I can't say honestly, i don't have the numbers myself..

I would have expected that it would be way cheaper to as customers move off the PSTN to consolidate the remaining customers onto fewer and fewer NEAX's giving you spares.
It's not like the numbers are going to increase right?

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Aredwood

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#1769068 22-Apr-2017 21:19

Sure, no real use cases for copper for new installs. But for existing voice only connections that need to keep working during power cuts. Easier to feed them all from an exchange or cabinet that has backup batteries or generation installed. Instead of deploying and maintaining backup batteries at lots of houses.

Fixing faults will also be easier. If a copper pair fails, just switch the customer over to another pair. As there will be lots of unused pairs available due to everyone switching to fibre.

OldGeek

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#1769155 23-Apr-2017 10:28

It would seem that what Spark have announced is what is needed to keep the current copper network going. Therefore the investment is protecting an existing income stream which is fast becoming a legacy technology (being surpassed by the UFB network).

Do those who install a UFB connection continue to use any PSTN services? I would have thought that UFB plus VOIP would be all that is needed.

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#1769160 23-Apr-2017 10:56

OldGeek: Do those who install a UFB connection continue to use any PSTN services? I would have thought that UFB plus VOIP would be all that is needed.

I suppose the key question is whether the PSTN is still the central interconnect - if two UFB customers call each other, do the calls still go via the PSTN?

This may be ISP-dependent; it wouldn't surprise me if some of the smaller providers are only using VoIP "last mile" and are still feeding everything back to the PSTN, as it's probably the easiest way to connect to other providers' networks.

richms

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#1769162 23-Apr-2017 10:58

DarkShadow:

hio77:

to give a direct answer on how UFB is used to provide voice, You have two options as a RSP;

1, Provide voice over the ONT FON ports, This is what i feel to be the cleanest and smooth option as it makes it very easy for integrated wiring installations (causing a very seamless feeling experience)

2, Voice provided via SIP on the RGW, This is what is commonly used by most RSP.

In both cases, it is a SIP implementation, however generally the ONT voice is over private vlans etc.

There is one more option:

3, Deliver voice via a smartphone app, like Stuff.

4. Not deliver voice at all over fixed. Either dont sell it like bigpipe, or sell a cellular based option like vodafone wireless homeline.

Richard rich.ms

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