Fibre Install Prior to Renovation

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Earbanean

944 posts

Ultimate Geek

#250638 20-May-2019 11:30

We've got a reasonably major reno starting in a month or two. We currently have an ADSL connection, but we've recently finally got fibre to the street. So the logical thing is to connect fibre for after the reno, remove copper and retire the ADSL modem. Chorus are coming around tomorrow morning to scope it and I think install as well, if there aren't any complications.

Currently phone/power is buried to the house. I'm hoping fibre can come through that duct (but not sure till tomorrow). The duct enters house in basement level at front of the house. The location of new data cabinet is level above (ground level), near the rear of the house, on the inside of an external wall. I see two options:

1. Get fibre through coduit to basement, then under house part way, then outside along base of house and in through wall of new study and terminated where new cabinet will be. So ONT in cabinet.

2. Just get fibre terminated in basement where conduit enters. Then in reno, get Cat 6 cabled from Cabinet down to ONT in basement. So ONT not in cabinet, but router, switch, patch panel are.

Are there any major pros or cons of either of these two approaches? I guess with 2. all the cabling and boxes are internal, but ONT is in separate location.

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1243 posts

Uber Geek

#2241236 20-May-2019 11:36

Option 2 sounds better to me. There wont be any performance difference.

I take it a landline isn't involved? If it is you would probably want the ONT with your patch panel.

Mistenfuru

198 posts

Master Geek

#2241237 20-May-2019 11:37

Basically more ease of access issues I s'pose

I'd personally push for the ONT to go in the Comms Cabinet.

Is the Basement damp? this would be the main negative I'd watch out for with plan 2

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#2241431 20-May-2019 13:37

Another negative with option 2, is that if you want to add a UPS or other battery backup system. You will need 2 UPS or a DC power cable to back feed power from your Cabinet to the ONT.

Can you ask Chorus to give you some internal microduct. And you run it yourself from the Cabinet to the basement? Assuming that they dont want to do option 1 themselves.

antoniosk

2358 posts

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#2241471 20-May-2019 14:12

Is this an American style basement that you can enter, or just the subfloor under the house?

As long as it’s dry and has power, then a single cat6a connection is ok.

It might be a small pain when it comes time to restarting and trouble shooting, but if you are troubleshooting that frequently there are other problems to think about.

________

Antoniosk

Earbanean

944 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2241509 20-May-2019 14:47

Aredwood: Another negative with option 2, is that if you want to add a UPS or other battery backup system. You will need 2 UPS or a DC power cable to back feed power from your Cabinet to the ONT.

Can you ask Chorus to give you some internal microduct. And you run it yourself from the Cabinet to the basement? Assuming that they dont want to do option 1 themselves.

Good point about UPS etc. In fact the room in the basement where it would go may even need a power point installed for the ONT, as existing power point is on the other side of the room.

Getting internal ducting is an interesting idea. Chorus wouldn't be able to do Option 1 as there won't be an internal pathway all the way until the walls/floors are ripped up with the reno. I assume it would be difficult synchronising that with a Chorus visit. However, if the sparky could lay the duct and then Chorus could pull the fibre through that when they return, that might be best of both worlds. Even if Chorus wouldn't supply it, I imagine it would be straight forward for a sparky to source?

Earbanean

944 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2241514 20-May-2019 14:51

antoniosk: Is this an American style basement that you can enter, or just the subfloor under the house?

Yep, there is a dry basement. Existing duct with phone comes into sub floor area, then through the wall into a basement storage room, adjacent to our garage. However, power point is on the opposite side of the storage room, so may need a new power point.

chevrolux

4962 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2241583 20-May-2019 15:32

The easiest method is to ask your sparky to run a hybrid cable (its a Cat 6 + 2 fibre) from the ETP (external point) to your comms cabinet. They can buy this from any electrical wholesaler these days - it's cheap too.

Chorus don't usually do the microduct all the way to the ONT so no point in that. And they aren't going to waste a spool of blown fibre on a short run inside the house if it's not blown from the street.

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Earbanean

944 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2241590 20-May-2019 15:41

What's "blown fibre"? Is that the stuff from the street to the house?

Would they ever run that from the street to the house, but not terminate it and leave long enough that my sparky could then run it to the cabinet when the walls/floors are open? Then they could come back on another visit and terminate and install the ONT.

chevrolux

4962 posts

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#2241591 20-May-2019 15:45

Earbanean:

What's "blown fibre"? Is that the stuff from the street to the house?

Would they ever run that from the street to the house, but not terminate it and leave long enough that my sparky could then run it to the cabinet when the walls/floors are open? Then they could come back on another visit and terminate and install the ONT.

No. Blown fibre is VERY fragile when not in microduct, you wouldn't want it left lying around.

Blowing fibre is just a type of install method used in some areas, the other being 'fixed' fibre when they just pull in a cable old school styles.

Regardless of install method, you will always have a splice in your ETP. So you should simply just run some standard hybrid cable from the ETP to comms room and you are all sorted.

Earbanean

944 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2241615 20-May-2019 15:58

chevrolux:

Regardless of install method, you will always have a splice in your ETP. So you should simply just run some standard hybrid cable from the ETP to comms room and you are all sorted.

Ah, OK. Thanks, that makes sense now. They terminate the fibre at the ETP, then do hybrid cable to the ONT. So I should be able to get them to put ETP in the sub floor space where duct enters from street, then my sparky can run hybrid from there to the cabinet when the walls/floors are off. Lastly Chorus can come back and splice hybrid to ETP at one end and install ONT at the other end.

If that's correct, I think it's my ideal solution. i.e. gets the ONT in the data cabinet, but doesn't require Chorus visit synchronised with particular stage of the renovation.

Thanks for the help.

chevrolux

4962 posts

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Inactive user

#2241619 20-May-2019 16:02

Yep you got it. Just to add the the ETP is the EXTERNAL termination point i.e. it will be an external box on the outside of the house, not under floor or anything like that.

Depending on the age of the house, you should already have a small square box on the outside where your copper comes in? Just run the hybrid cable to there.

Earbanean

944 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2241628 20-May-2019 16:15

I was thinking the sub floor space, because it's sort of outside. i.e. dirt etc. The phone line seems to come out of conduit there and then through the wall into the 'internal' basement storage room, where there is a box with "Phone PoE" on it.

However, I guess I'm happy for Chorus to tell me best spot for ETP, as long as it's somewhere my sparky can run hybrid to and not unsightly.

BMarquis

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#2241669 20-May-2019 16:22

Assuming you are in a Chorus area - @chorusnz will be able to help on the "what should we do?", "How can we do it?" and "Who can help us?"

But... If it were me, I'd be wanting to ensure I was future proof.

1) Who knows what ONT technology may come in the future... Maybe I should know! I have an inkling... but it is a fast moving world...

2) Future LAN technology. If you run cat6 from the ONT to the comms cupboard, what do you do if/when fibre for the LAN side becomes a thing?

3) UPS (as already mentioned)

4) Getting everything comms-y in the same place.

Taking all of that into account I'd be trying to the the ONT into the comms cabinet.

Of course there is a doability and (maybe) cost aspect for you to consider.

phantomdb

583 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#2241718 20-May-2019 17:20

remember when doing hybrid cabling every SHARP bend causes loss, much like kinking a garden hose. if you can guarantee the run go for it, else opt to put the hybrid in 20mm conduit with the EASY bends not the sharp 90bends. it gives you options going forward. Remember in the future someone MAY mistake that Hybrid cable for Normal cat6 and cut through it..........

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InstallerUFB

840 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2241767 20-May-2019 18:27

chevrolux:

The easiest method is to ask your sparky to run a hybrid cable (its a Cat 6 + 2 fibre) from the ETP (external point) to your comms cabinet. They can buy this from any electrical wholesaler these days - it's cheap too.

Chorus don't usually do the microduct all the way to the ONT so no point in that. And they aren't going to waste a spool of blown fibre on a short run inside the house if it's not blown from the street.

All you really need is a pathway & drawcord (a piece of cat5 etc) from your ETP to Comms cab position - if you get someone to pre- install a non-chorus hybrid then you are wasteing your money, as 9 x out of 10 it will get replaced as

(1) the final connection forms part of the chorus network and if the cable isn't to their spec it only gets used as as draw wire -

(2) it gets damaged by the builders/cladders/painters etc as they work around either end and becomes too short to be used to splice in (it needs to have at least 2m of clean un-damaged cable at the ends )

(3) sparkies treat it like it just an alarm or power cable and run it around nails up in the ceiling jousts and run it under tension not realiseing the damage then do.

How do I know this - well I' ve sent the last 8 years - either installing or repairing ufb/nga installations and Im sick of running new cables through houses because of the 3 points above :-)

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