General questions - Master filter, sync stats etc

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P1n3apqlExpr3ss

853 posts

Ultimate Geek

#98176 25-Feb-2012 13:31

Let's start off by saying I am with Actrix on their 30GB Gamer plan: https://www.actrix.co.nz/signup/cyberjet.php

Location: North Shore, roughly 150-200m from cabinet

My modem is a Netcomm NB6Plus4Wn: http://www.netcomm.com.au/netcomm-products/adsl-broadband/nb6plus4wn

Line stats:

Speedtests:
Telstraclear Auckland - 71ms / 5.8 Mb down / 0.68 Mb up
Speedtest.com VF Auckland - 67ms / 4.88 Mb down / 0.68 Mb up
Speedtest.com Citylink Wellington - 56ms / 4.83 Mb down / 0.67 Mb up

Questions:

1) Can someone give me a link to that website with the map with cabinet/exchange information?

2) Master filters - do they only allow modem plugin in one socket only? (Modem could be in any of 3 sockets at my place)

3) Master filters - do they act as some sort of DMZ, bypassing all other junk?

4) Master filters - how much do they cost to get installed?

5) Master filters - what sort of improvement in performance COULD I see? Using information from speed/line stats

6) How much of an impact does a good (or crappy) modem make?

7) What could be causing my seemingly crappy pings?

8) What else can you tell me about my connection I haven't asked about specifically?

That's all the questions I can come up for now, thanks for the help in advance

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1574 posts

Uber Geek

#586644 25-Feb-2012 13:41

1) http://www.chorus.co.nz/service-availability-tool

RunningMan

8955 posts

Uber Geek

#586646 25-Feb-2012 13:52

With only 8dB attenuation but a sync speed that low, it suggests a wiring issue. More often than not, this is internal to your premises. At 8dB attenuation, you should be able to get about 3 times that sync speed.

A master splitter basically isolates the DSL (modem) line from the rest of any dodgy house wiring, providing a single outlet for the modem.

Price - about $30 for the splitter by itself if you can DIY, if not, there are a couple of experienced people on here who will no doubt offer you a good price for installation.

My first suggestion is to try an isolation test with your wiring though - use the search feature, there's a couple of good threads on it.

P1n3apqlExpr3ss

853 posts

Ultimate Geek

#586666 25-Feb-2012 14:38

I believe that is where the phone line enters the house? The fat pipe in front of it may or may not be the water mains (it has one of those red lever handles so not too sure) and the new smartmeter power thing is a metre above it

"A master splitter basically isolates the DSL (modem) line from the rest of any dodgy house wiring, providing a single outlet for the modem."

Does that mean I can plug-in the modem in one socket only or what?

Will start to run some isolation tests now

chevrolux

4962 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#586669 25-Feb-2012 14:44

RunningMan: With only 8dB attenuation but a sync speed that low, it suggests a wiring issue. More often than not, this is internal to your premises. At 8dB attenuation, you should be able to get about 3 times that sync speed.

A master splitter basically isolates the DSL (modem) line from the rest of any dodgy house wiring, providing a single outlet for the modem.

Price - about $30 for the splitter by itself if you can DIY, if not, there are a couple of experienced people on here who will no doubt offer you a good price for installation.

My first suggestion is to try an isolation test with your wiring though - use the search feature, there's a couple of good threads on it.

Someone will correct me if im wrong, but the fact that there is only 8dB attenuation tells me there is nothing wrong with the wiring at all. The modem can't distinguish between the chorus network and the house wiring. My guess is you are on feeding from an exchange and not the cabinet.
You could have been missed when they upgraded the cabinet.

P1n3apqlExpr3ss

853 posts

Ultimate Geek

#586670 25-Feb-2012 14:48

Wow this is crazy, unplug the phone and a AC Nielsen scanner... just leaving the modem passing through a dual-DSL adapter

Line stats:

Speedtests:
Telstraclear Auckland - 61ms / 14.57 Mb down / 0.79 Mb up
Speedtest.com VF Auckland - 57ms / 8.96 Mb down / 0.75 Mb up
Speedtest.com Citylink Wellington - 47ms / 11.76 Mb down / 0.74 Mb up

Haven't plugged anything back in yet but im betting its that damned scanner

chevrolux

4962 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#586671 25-Feb-2012 14:54

whats a 'dual dsl adpater'? And whats the scanner thingy do?

RunningMan

8955 posts

Uber Geek

#586674 25-Feb-2012 14:58

chevrolux: Someone will correct me if im wrong, but the fact that there is only 8dB attenuation tells me there is nothing wrong with the wiring at all. The modem can't distinguish between the chorus network and the house wiring. My guess is you are on feeding from an exchange and not the cabinet.
You could have been missed when they upgraded the cabinet.

Close, but not quite. 8dB attenuation (quite a low figure) means the distance to the exchange or cabinet is also comparatively low - in probably in the hundreds of metres. There is a (roughly) inverse relationship between the attenuation and the sync speed though, so a low attenuation will generally see a high sync speed, and vice versa.

In this case, a low attenuation, and a low speed suggests that something is putting a lot of noise on the line. The most common causes are inside the home, like sky boxes, monitored alarms, the ACN box (as in this case) or lots of additional jack points that cause reflections of the signal on the line.

With the problem of ULL connections going back to an exchange whilst also passing through a newly installed cabinet (hence getting midspan injection) you'd expect to see a high attenuation due to the very long cable that runs all the way back to the exchange

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RunningMan

8955 posts

Uber Geek

#586675 25-Feb-2012 15:00

P1n3apqlExpr3ss: Wow this is crazy, unplug the phone and a AC Nielsen scanner... just leaving the modem passing through a dual-DSL adapter

Line stats:

Speedtests:
Telstraclear Auckland - 61ms / 14.57 Mb down / 0.79 Mb up
Speedtest.com VF Auckland - 57ms / 8.96 Mb down / 0.75 Mb up
Speedtest.com Citylink Wellington - 47ms / 11.76 Mb down / 0.74 Mb up

Haven't plugged anything back in yet but im betting its that damned scanner

That's far better - exactly the sort of speed you should be seeing. There was a thread around here about a month ago with another person having the same issue with an AC Neilson box.

A master filter install should isolate the modem from the interference, but you would only have the one outlet to connect your modem to...

RunningMan

8955 posts

Uber Geek

#586676 25-Feb-2012 15:04

I just found that other ACN box thread - it was yours as well....

P1n3apqlExpr3ss

853 posts

Ultimate Geek

#586677 25-Feb-2012 15:10

AFTER PLUGGING PHONE BACK IN
Phone is plugged back in through an answering machine and a adsl filter then its off to the dual-DSL adapter it is sharing with the modem

Line stats:

Speedtests:
Telstraclear Auckland - 60ms / 9.44 Mb down / 0.79 Mb up - That 14Mb result was a one off run
Speedtest.com VF Auckland - 57ms / 10.28 Mb down / 0.79 Mb up
Speedtest.com Citylink Wellington - 47ms / 11.09 Mb down / 0.79 Mb up

AFTER PLUGGING SCANNER BACK IN in a different area of the house than previously via a filter

Line stats:

Speedtests:
Telstraclear Auckland - 70ms / 5.08 Mb down / 0.69 Mb up
Would probably be same as OP, not gonna bother with rest

AFTER PLUGGING SCANNER BACK IN - using a different socket on scanner, there's two for some reason Theres a "use line" and a "phone line" not very clearly marked. Different area of the house than previously via a filter.

No change. The scanner is getting expelled.

CONCLUSION

2.5x download increase, 15% upload increase, 10ms fall in latency.

With the new data/line stats, is a master filter still worth it?

P1n3apqlExpr3ss

853 posts

Ultimate Geek

#586679 25-Feb-2012 15:13

RunningMan: I just found that other ACN box thread - it was yours as well....

Yea, just in that case I never bothered with speeds and sync stats, only the disconnections at midnight issue, otherwise I would've solved this back then as well

chevrolux: whats a 'dual dsl adpater'? And whats the scanner thingy do?

Probably not the best name for it but one of these:
http://www.gfiglobal.com/images/gf-product-webphotos/bt-double-adapter-uk02a-1.png

Scanner is used to scan food items we buy for AC Nielsens research and stuff, it likes to upload and download bits of data a few times a week. I have no idea why it completely craps the ADSL line out though

RunningMan

8955 posts

Uber Geek

#586682 25-Feb-2012 15:15

P1n3apqlExpr3ss
With the new data/line stats, is a master filter still worth it?

Well, it'll give you the absolute best possible speed, and allow you to have the scanner etc. plugged in as well.

However, if you bin the scanner, then the return on investment isn't going to be anywhere near as high - as you've seen from your tests, you get a very decent speed as long as that isn't plugged in.

RunningMan

8955 posts

Uber Geek

#586683 25-Feb-2012 15:18

P1n3apqlExpr3ss: Yea, just in that case I never bothered with speeds and sync stats, only the disconnections at midnight issue, otherwise I would've solved this back then as well

Chuck the thing in the recycle bin - 2 x problems solved!!!

I guess of course it could be a faulty box, or an old model - you never know, might be worth a call to ACN to see if they'll give you a new one to try...

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#586684 25-Feb-2012 15:21

Simple reality is if your setup is anyhtihg other than a naked DSL connection with a single jackpoint that only has your modem plugged in to it then a master filter is essential, not optional, if you want the best ADSL2+ performance, and is essential for VDSL2.

chevrolux

4962 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#586685 25-Feb-2012 15:26

RunningMan:
chevrolux: Someone will correct me if im wrong, but the fact that there is only 8dB attenuation tells me there is nothing wrong with the wiring at all. The modem can't distinguish between the chorus network and the house wiring. My guess is you are on feeding from an exchange and not the cabinet.
You could have been missed when they upgraded the cabinet.

Close, but not quite. 8dB attenuation (quite a low figure) means the distance to the exchange or cabinet is also comparatively low - in probably in the hundreds of metres. There is a (roughly) inverse relationship between the attenuation and the sync speed though, so a low attenuation will generally see a high sync speed, and vice versa.

In this case, a low attenuation, and a low speed suggests that something is putting a lot of noise on the line. The most common causes are inside the home, like sky boxes, monitored alarms, the ACN box (as in this case) or lots of additional jack points that cause reflections of the signal on the line.

With the problem of ULL connections going back to an exchange whilst also passing through a newly installed cabinet (hence getting midspan injection) you'd expect to see a high attenuation due to the very long cable that runs all the way back to the exchange

Im more than comfortable with what peripheral device to do ADSL. I started work as a linesman and now do data cabling and install PABXs. Are you saying there is no relationship with the state of the wiring and the attenuation. I just always assumed that if someone was super close to the source but had an attenuation level up around 20-30db you could safely assume that the house wiring is to blame. But then I guess that argument gets shot down as this case is proof im wrong lol.
For me it is just common practice to start by unplugging everything from the phone line first and then check modem stats if I have a slow dsl problem. Never really given much thought to what these devices are actually doing.

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